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I have an interview coming up with UFO

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researcher Richard Dolan here are some

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clips we met with the guy at the DoD but

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he's a whistleblower all the information

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he revealed well none of its classified

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her top secret the kid who took that

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innocently took a selfie I'm being

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inside the submarine he's in prison and

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this is the biggest thing ever happened

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15 days a year

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I wouldn't say that Elizondo necessarily

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classifies as a whistleblower I don't

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know I mean he all of these people are

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self-serving so the folks at TTS a it's

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not like you know they're all angels and

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they have no other ulterior motives what

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they do all these guys who are the

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military that was their pledge are we at

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a different point where we've totally

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given up on the idea that we need to

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hold these people accountable is that

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just kind of out the window and good

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question where we are in a post

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constitutional phase I mean look we're

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in a an upside-down world where what I

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call this thing now legal illegalities

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that's really what it is it's like this

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legal framework to to protect what is

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fundamentally should be illegal in any

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democratic oriented society

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consciousness clearly is important in

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some fundamental way to this nature of

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our reality and secondly we have in an

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enormous hole in our general

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understanding of reality itself like

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there's things we don't get and so in

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that hole are things like UFOs

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in that hole are things like you know

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synchronicities and spirituality and

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maybe even like you know definitely like

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psychic phenomena psy phenomenon

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absolutely fit in there stay with us for

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skeptic Oh

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when it's all said and done the UFO /et

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thing is going to be understood as well

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one of the biggest things in our history

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I mean it is after all at the center of

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just about every question we can ask who

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are we why are we here and that makes it

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at the center of not just our history

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but also the center of our science and

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maybe even the center of our

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spirituality so if the UFO ET thing is

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be big thing then what are we to make of

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today's guest because for the last 20

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years

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Oxford trained historian and Rhodes

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Scholar finalist Richard Dolan has been

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widely acknowledged as one of the most

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respected authoritative and influential

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researchers within this field as many

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books I have some of them up on the

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screen if you're watching this and his

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extensive research articles that I

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continue to profit from and lean on all

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the time have brought a new level of

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scholarship and in particular

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respectability to a field that really

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needed it especially needed it a few

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years back when Richard started this

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adventure he's the author of a number of

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books as I mentioned including the

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seminal UFO in the national security

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state series also but another book we're

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going to talk about one that he wrote

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with Bryce is Abel and as you all know

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richard has appeared on many many

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documentaries TV programs he's the host

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of the very excellent Richard Dolan show

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that we might play some clips of later

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in this interview and it's just a real

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pleasure and joy to have him join me

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Richard thanks so much for being here

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Alex it's a pleasure thank you for that

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very nice introduction it's nice to be

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here well you're welcome in I don't want

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to start off with a total cheese ball

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question but this is going to maybe

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sound like

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on anyway and that's what are we to make

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of your legacy and have you thought

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about your legacy and that you know that

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makes it immediately sound like we're

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kind of putting you out to pasture or

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something but I really want to hone in

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on this because you know the UFO field

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anyone who's in that has to pretty much

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accept the fact that you are going to be

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ignored by all the mainstream praise

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givers reward reward errs and honor

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giving entities you're gonna be outside

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of the loop on that but as a historian

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you know that sometimes history kind of

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straightens out those oversights so

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without I'm you're a pretty modest guy

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from what I can tell but have you given

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any thought to what it might look like

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in terms of your career in the longer

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lens of history interesting I've

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actually never been asked that question

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before so well I have thought about and

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whatever impact my contribution may have

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had to ufology in general so when I

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think back on the publication of my

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first book UFOs in the national security

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state and in the first edition of that

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book I self-published back in the year

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2000 that was about a year and a half

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before 9/11 and I do remember the

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reaction that it got from some of the

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old-timers in the field at the time and

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I I was aware that it had a very it

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seemed to have a strong impact for a lot

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of people because it was I feel even now

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it was probably the first attempt to

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sort of mainstream UFO history within a

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broader context of American and world

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history so I don't think anyone had ever

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done that before and that in itself at

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the time was kind of a radical thing I

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could have done that book a lot better

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looking back on it but the funny thing

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is writing that first book was my

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education in the field I started in 1995

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94 and basically ground zero of

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knowledge of the subject I mean nothing

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so I I started really throwing myself

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into the old literature

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old books Kehoe Lorenz ins Hynek

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repelled all those guys and every up

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everyone else that had been forgotten

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and and then a lot of the modern what

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was then modern work on it and put

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together a narrative yeah that had not

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really been done before so I think and

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there was at the time it was a radical

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interpretation of the UFO cover-up I

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used the phrase national security state

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in the title itself which actually I

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borrowed from an essay by gore Vidal

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from the 1980s who had written an

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article like that I think for the nation

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but I think it was a radical

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interpretation of the cover-up which

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when I look back on that book now it

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seems very almost conservative in its

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thesis you know I think there been

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people have gone far far more radical

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and sometimes in a good way sometimes in

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a very unproductive way but I guess what

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I would say as far as legacy is that

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that work and then my subsequent volume

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and other work that have done since have

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helped to open up like I guess I'll say

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a better political analysis of the UFO

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phenomenon and coverup and and then if

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there's any other legacy that I would

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have this isn't mine specifically other

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people have done this as well or better

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for sure but is to try to study this

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subject with with respect that is by

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looking at the data not trying to

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pretend that I've understood all of the

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data and all of the information and

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showing respect enough to the phenomenon

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himself to have questions and deposit

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let out and not to pretend that I know

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everything one thing that I just I get

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frustrated by sometimes as by

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individuals in this field who act like

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they've got everything figured out you

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know that's interesting

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um you know the one thing I can really

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relate to having followed the UFO field

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kind of from the outside especially when

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when you got started but was still super

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aware of the shift that came about with

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you doing things in the way that you did

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it bringing

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level of just confidence Authority and

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scholarship did you one more question on

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this then we're going to move on cuz I

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have so many things I want to talk to

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you about but did you get a sense for

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that shift because I think a lot of

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people felt that shift you know domme

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comes out and he's hitting this stuff

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hard he's in terms of the real stuff but

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he's doing in a very matter-of-fact

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scholarly way we can handle this stuff

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boom here it is were you surprised by

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the shift did you notice the shift I

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didn't notice it for a while I have to

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honestly say that like because I wasn't

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active in this field in the 1990s I was

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a lone wolf researching this all through

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the 90s no one knew who I was so I

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didn't go to any conferences I didn't

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really know anyone I didn't talk to

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anyone I'd very limited correspondence

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it's crazy when I look back how we did

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that book over that five-year period so

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when I entered the field I don't I don't

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really think I had a true appreciation

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of how others were perceiving me that's

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the truth like I could tell that there

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were individuals who told me that they

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appreciate what I did and I mean I got

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that early on and that that has grown

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over the years certainly in the last

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decade even 15 years it's been it's been

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shocking to me to be honest to see the

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response that people get from me I'm

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it's humbling I'll honestly say but in

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the early years I know I don't think I

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can't say that I was really aware I I

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think that I was I was very focused on

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on pursuing what I felt was an original

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approach to this at least as far as I

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could tell and I know it's a hard

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question to answer I think over over

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time I've come to appreciate that that

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my that whatever it is that I've done

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has had its own niche its own place in

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ufology and and that's that's definitely

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good feeling so one of the things that

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you've done I guess is really give us a

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reorientation to the word disclosure

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and what that means and you've kind of

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come back to that again and again and

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when we chatted before the interview one

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of the things that I said I really was

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anxious to talk to you about was kind of

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a follow up to a book that you published

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a few years ago after disclosure which I

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thought at the time was again is such a

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I'm gonna stop singing your praises here

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in Menna cos getting uncomfortable but

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it really was a novel way to kind of

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deal with the question of how can there

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be this reality that seems to be

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acknowledged by so many people and

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understood by so many people and yet

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it's cut under wraps and we keep

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spinning around in that circle and then

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somebody jumps ahead and says okay wait

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a minute let's say what happens after

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disclosure so anyways that's what the

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book was about many people we know about

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that book but then I found a fantastic

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presentation you did the new face of

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disclosure and the YouTube video is up

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you gave it in Copenhagen in July of

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2019 and back to the pre-interview thing

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we were having I wanted to ask you what

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you think now now that a lot of us would

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look around and say disclosure has

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happened or is happening what do you

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think about disclosure now let me play a

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clip from your presentation and then

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let's chat about that a little bit so

272
00:12:25,140 --> 00:12:23,230
can the establishment truly dominate the

273
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:25,150
narrative if they are rolling out this

274
00:12:28,560 --> 00:12:27,010
disclosure narrative I think it'd be

275
00:12:31,170 --> 00:12:28,570
very difficult for anyone who's trying

276
00:12:33,480 --> 00:12:31,180
to control the narrative really there's

277
00:12:35,460 --> 00:12:33,490
a lot of questions that will come up you

278
00:12:38,040 --> 00:12:35,470
know when when we did after disclosure

279
00:12:40,560 --> 00:12:38,050
ten years ago Bryce and I really asked

280
00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:40,570
about these things for me the big

281
00:12:45,920 --> 00:12:42,130
question is if you make an

282
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:45,930
acknowledgement that UFOs are real ever

283
00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:48,730
then wouldn't it be the case that people

284
00:12:56,700 --> 00:12:50,620
would say oh my god so how have you been

285
00:12:58,410 --> 00:12:56,710
lying to us all this time okay let's

286
00:13:01,140 --> 00:12:58,420
let's talk about that I mean that's

287
00:13:02,970 --> 00:13:01,150
enough of a tee up right there just what

288
00:13:05,760 --> 00:13:02,980
do you think

289
00:13:07,770 --> 00:13:05,770
well um first thing I'll just say is

290
00:13:10,490 --> 00:13:07,780
it's funny about disclosure I did not

291
00:13:13,050 --> 00:13:10,500
ever want to write about disclosure ever

292
00:13:15,300 --> 00:13:13,060
15 plus years ago people were talking

293
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:15,310
about disclosure this is back in two

294
00:13:19,740 --> 00:13:17,410
thousand two three four and I would say

295
00:13:22,650 --> 00:13:19,750
ah way too early to talk about that

296
00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:22,660
we've still have to get into the nature

297
00:13:26,250 --> 00:13:24,610
of the cover-up and disclosures

298
00:13:29,670 --> 00:13:26,260
premature and but the problem is I kept

299
00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:29,680
getting roped in to Steve Bassett sex

300
00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:31,210
conferences which were about disclosure

301
00:13:35,520 --> 00:13:32,620
and all these other disclosure

302
00:13:37,560 --> 00:13:35,530
conversations I was naturally brought in

303
00:13:40,590 --> 00:13:37,570
because of the political analysis that I

304
00:13:44,120 --> 00:13:40,600
used to do and I've always done so yeah

305
00:13:46,710 --> 00:13:44,130
when when we wrote after disclosure

306
00:13:49,140 --> 00:13:46,720
that's a book I'm really happy I had a

307
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:49,150
great co-author Bryce Abel was and is a

308
00:13:53,370 --> 00:13:52,090
script screenwriter producer he's got a

309
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:53,380
lot of good Hollywood experience he did

310
00:13:58,470 --> 00:13:55,570
the TV show dark skies which many still

311
00:14:01,740 --> 00:13:58,480
remember and his improvement is really

312
00:14:03,330 --> 00:14:01,750
definitely visible on that book but in

313
00:14:07,320 --> 00:14:03,340
terms of what I was talking about in

314
00:14:08,760 --> 00:14:07,330
that clip there in Copenhagen I still

315
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:08,770
maintain this I've always believed that

316
00:14:13,620 --> 00:14:10,870
any kind of official announcement from

317
00:14:14,970 --> 00:14:13,630
any government body particularly the

318
00:14:17,490 --> 00:14:14,980
United States government is going to be

319
00:14:22,230 --> 00:14:17,500
a really difficult one for them to

320
00:14:24,180 --> 00:14:22,240
control because the UFOs people think

321
00:14:27,960 --> 00:14:24,190
they contain this subject and it cannot

322
00:14:29,220 --> 00:14:27,970
be tamed it's it's too big of a reality

323
00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:29,230
transformation and that is why I

324
00:14:34,980 --> 00:14:31,990
actually don't believe that where we're

325
00:14:37,710 --> 00:14:34,990
seeing disclosure right now when when

326
00:14:39,930 --> 00:14:37,720
the mainstream narrative changed

327
00:14:42,270 --> 00:14:39,940
starting at the end of 2017 in the New

328
00:14:44,490 --> 00:14:42,280
York Times did their few pieces Politico

329
00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:44,500
and then all of the follow up and we

330
00:14:50,790 --> 00:14:49,030
have seen so much transformation it is

331
00:14:52,620 --> 00:14:50,800
easy to come to the conclusion oh well

332
00:14:55,350 --> 00:14:52,630
this is completely government controlled

333
00:14:57,360 --> 00:14:55,360
it's a PSYOP it's a disclosure narrative

334
00:14:59,370 --> 00:14:57,370
whatever I know you really pushed back

335
00:15:02,070 --> 00:14:59,380
hard on me when we were talking and I

336
00:15:05,460 --> 00:15:02,080
said Richard to me this is obviously a

337
00:15:09,240 --> 00:15:05,470
political side of despair because you

338
00:15:11,010 --> 00:15:09,250
don't think you totally disagree yeah

339
00:15:12,600 --> 00:15:11,020
well I I can understand the point of

340
00:15:14,100 --> 00:15:12,610
view but here's I'll tell you why I

341
00:15:16,140 --> 00:15:14,110
disagree

342
00:15:16,790 --> 00:15:16,150
can I can I can I ask you to pause that

343
00:15:18,800 --> 00:15:16,800
let me add a

344
00:15:22,130 --> 00:15:18,810
clip to it and then you can respond

345
00:15:25,009 --> 00:15:22,140
directly because we both like I think

346
00:15:28,940 --> 00:15:25,019
you know and appreciate Leslie Kane

347
00:15:31,490 --> 00:15:28,950
right who of course and indeed has the

348
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:31,500
byline to that New York Times story and

349
00:15:36,860 --> 00:15:34,620
I had a chance to interview her and I

350
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:36,870
love Leslie she's awesome she's been on

351
00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:38,610
the show a couple times a lot of respect

352
00:15:43,940 --> 00:15:40,230
for it but I hammered her pretty hard

353
00:15:47,660 --> 00:15:43,950
and we play this clip yeah Leslie who

354
00:15:52,100 --> 00:15:47,670
comes forward this is not a day he's not

355
00:15:54,699 --> 00:15:52,110
a whistleblower right this is you are

356
00:15:58,460 --> 00:15:54,709
such a good journalist writer

357
00:16:00,290 --> 00:15:58,470
investigative journalist beyond to

358
00:16:01,850 --> 00:16:00,300
colleagues at the times that are even

359
00:16:03,949 --> 00:16:01,860
more experienced than I am that we're in

360
00:16:06,199 --> 00:16:03,959
on this with me so we're not just

361
00:16:09,800 --> 00:16:06,209
looking at it from from the big picture

362
00:16:12,530 --> 00:16:09,810
where is an example of a where anyone

363
00:16:15,829 --> 00:16:12,540
inside the government has come out and

364
00:16:18,620 --> 00:16:15,839
said anything even like this I mean the

365
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:18,630
kid went to jail for having a picture of

366
00:16:22,180 --> 00:16:20,160
a submarine in his background I mean

367
00:16:24,829 --> 00:16:22,190
this is not a day and age where people

368
00:16:27,170 --> 00:16:24,839
inside the government with deep state

369
00:16:30,139 --> 00:16:27,180
secrets like this are allowed to speak

370
00:16:32,630 --> 00:16:30,149
freely he was not breaking boundaries

371
00:16:34,519 --> 00:16:32,640
are saying all this crazy stuff that no

372
00:16:36,590 --> 00:16:34,529
one wanted to say this is a controlled

373
00:16:39,680 --> 00:16:36,600
release no I don't agree with that I

374
00:16:41,480 --> 00:16:39,690
mean none of our work ever led me to get

375
00:16:44,449 --> 00:16:41,490
to that conclusion or any of us and we

376
00:16:46,340 --> 00:16:44,459
talked to a lot of people the point is

377
00:16:50,240 --> 00:16:46,350
none of the information that he brought

378
00:16:52,519 --> 00:16:50,250
forward was classified information is

379
00:16:54,440 --> 00:16:52,529
about classified information that's the

380
00:16:56,300 --> 00:16:54,450
distinction right that distinction is

381
00:17:00,230 --> 00:16:56,310
meaningless at this point this is the

382
00:17:02,060 --> 00:17:00,240
biggest story probably in the in oral in

383
00:17:03,350 --> 00:17:02,070
the history of our lives certainly a lot

384
00:17:05,689 --> 00:17:03,360
of people are saying in the history of

385
00:17:07,929 --> 00:17:05,699
the world and to suggest that this

386
00:17:10,880 --> 00:17:07,939
somehow and some phony-baloney

387
00:17:12,590 --> 00:17:10,890
classified not classified top secret

388
00:17:15,049 --> 00:17:12,600
this isn't classified and that's

389
00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:15,059
supposed to be the the mark I I don't

390
00:17:21,140 --> 00:17:19,110
see it okay so of course the he were

391
00:17:23,449 --> 00:17:21,150
talking about is Louella Zotto

392
00:17:24,829 --> 00:17:23,459
and what do you make of that you know

393
00:17:27,520 --> 00:17:24,839
this thing that oh this wasn't

394
00:17:29,230 --> 00:17:27,530
classified so that's why it came out

395
00:17:32,470 --> 00:17:29,240
so funny i find myself agreeing with

396
00:17:34,450 --> 00:17:32,480
leslie on this issue I mean I've known

397
00:17:36,430 --> 00:17:34,460
Leslie for many years and and like and

398
00:17:38,590 --> 00:17:36,440
respect her and we've I just chatted

399
00:17:41,159 --> 00:17:38,600
with her again last summer but I haven't

400
00:17:44,409 --> 00:17:41,169
always agreed with her perspective on

401
00:17:48,159 --> 00:17:44,419
public or public statements on this but

402
00:17:51,310 --> 00:17:48,169
I agree with her here although I didn't

403
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:51,320
probably initially agree so I'll tell

404
00:17:55,930 --> 00:17:53,570
you why I would agree with you I would

405
00:17:58,029 --> 00:17:55,940
agree with you because perhaps like you

406
00:18:01,330 --> 00:17:58,039
I I don't have a trust of the New York

407
00:18:04,539 --> 00:18:01,340
Times and I don't have a trust of any of

408
00:18:07,299 --> 00:18:04,549
the mainstream corporate journalists

409
00:18:08,590 --> 00:18:07,309
media establishment that exists in the

410
00:18:11,590 --> 00:18:08,600
Western world I think all of it is

411
00:18:13,270 --> 00:18:11,600
hopelessly corrupt and servants of the

412
00:18:15,640 --> 00:18:13,280
national security apparatus and the

413
00:18:17,560 --> 00:18:15,650
global financial apparatus so anything

414
00:18:19,899 --> 00:18:17,570
that comes out of the New York Times I

415
00:18:23,649 --> 00:18:19,909
think you have to be very very careful

416
00:18:25,029 --> 00:18:23,659
of and and you know considering that the

417
00:18:29,919 --> 00:18:25,039
New York Times said seventy five years

418
00:18:32,950 --> 00:18:29,929
or so of consistent anti UFO I mean the

419
00:18:34,990 --> 00:18:32,960
worst snarky smarmy only exceeded by The

420
00:18:36,399 --> 00:18:35,000
Washington Post probably which is which

421
00:18:39,100 --> 00:18:36,409
is actually the worst but the New York

422
00:18:42,279 --> 00:18:39,110
Times has been so bad on this and then

423
00:18:43,390 --> 00:18:42,289
suddenly boom what's this all about so

424
00:18:44,980 --> 00:18:43,400
I'm gonna give you my take on what

425
00:18:46,630 --> 00:18:44,990
happened here all right

426
00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:46,640
you can really lay this at the doorstep

427
00:18:51,909 --> 00:18:49,640
of the folks at T TSA now we can talk

428
00:18:52,779 --> 00:18:51,919
about what we think T TSA is you can yes

429
00:18:55,990 --> 00:18:52,789
we will

430
00:18:58,000 --> 00:18:56,000
oh there are CIA but let's just leave

431
00:19:00,580 --> 00:18:58,010
that aside for a moment and we'll let's

432
00:19:02,289 --> 00:19:00,590
put a pin in that as I say so T TSA

433
00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:02,299
rolls out their press conference in

434
00:19:08,860 --> 00:19:06,110
October of 2017 and is you'll probably

435
00:19:10,810 --> 00:19:08,870
remember that's where really the first

436
00:19:13,299 --> 00:19:10,820
public statement of what became known as

437
00:19:15,580 --> 00:19:13,309
the Tic Tac UFO even though that had

438
00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:15,590
been in that had been discussed and

439
00:19:19,690 --> 00:19:17,690
above top-secret all of that but really

440
00:19:21,730 --> 00:19:19,700
you have these guys talking about it and

441
00:19:24,909 --> 00:19:21,740
it's a heck of an encounter and they're

442
00:19:27,010 --> 00:19:24,919
talking also about a tip in that October

443
00:19:28,840 --> 00:19:27,020
press release I'm not sure if they used

444
00:19:30,940 --> 00:19:28,850
a name a tip but they certainly said the

445
00:19:33,610 --> 00:19:30,950
Pentagon's been studying this so it was

446
00:19:37,000 --> 00:19:33,620
actually that TDS a press conference

447
00:19:38,299 --> 00:19:37,010
that outed the tic-tac and the a tip

448
00:19:42,409 --> 00:19:38,309
program

449
00:19:44,810 --> 00:19:42,419
so now you've got a legit journalist

450
00:19:46,879 --> 00:19:44,820
like Leslie who is legit interested in

451
00:19:49,159 --> 00:19:46,889
UFOs not pretend but she's genuinely

452
00:19:51,049 --> 00:19:49,169
interested and she's got her in rows

453
00:19:53,359 --> 00:19:51,059
with the New York Times and she's got a

454
00:19:56,029 --> 00:19:53,369
couple of allies there Blumenthal and

455
00:19:59,719 --> 00:19:56,039
Helene Cooper and they're dealing with a

456
00:20:02,539 --> 00:19:59,729
New York Times establishment that does

457
00:20:04,219 --> 00:20:02,549
not want to cover this but I asked

458
00:20:06,469 --> 00:20:04,229
Leslie about this myself last summer and

459
00:20:08,330 --> 00:20:06,479
she didn't give me an answer as to why

460
00:20:09,859 --> 00:20:08,340
the New York Times covered this but I'm

461
00:20:11,779 --> 00:20:09,869
gonna give you my answer as to why I

462
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:11,789
believe the New York Times covered this

463
00:20:16,579 --> 00:20:14,369
because they knew that this story was

464
00:20:20,570 --> 00:20:16,589
going to break and I believe that they

465
00:20:22,249 --> 00:20:20,580
said all right we will we'll do this but

466
00:20:23,839 --> 00:20:22,259
we're gonna handle it our way and what

467
00:20:26,899 --> 00:20:23,849
they ended up doing if you look at those

468
00:20:30,849 --> 00:20:26,909
articles as they brought in particularly

469
00:20:32,810 --> 00:20:30,859
with the a tip piece ridiculous

470
00:20:34,129 --> 00:20:32,820
skeptical statements that had no meaning

471
00:20:35,899 --> 00:20:34,139
like by James Oberg

472
00:20:38,899 --> 00:20:35,909
Oberg like what is he even doing in this

473
00:20:40,639 --> 00:20:38,909
article and this meaningless astronomer

474
00:20:42,619 --> 00:20:40,649
from I think yell or Harvard who had

475
00:20:44,959 --> 00:20:42,629
zero to say about this but these were

476
00:20:46,459 --> 00:20:44,969
skeptical placeholders psychological

477
00:20:48,859 --> 00:20:46,469
placeholders so what the New York Times

478
00:20:52,070 --> 00:20:48,869
did is basically their attempt to

479
00:20:54,079 --> 00:20:52,080
control this narrative so that not to

480
00:20:56,649 --> 00:20:54,089
let it get out of control what happened

481
00:20:59,959 --> 00:20:56,659
is that because the New York Times gave

482
00:21:02,180 --> 00:20:59,969
even some validation of UFOs I think

483
00:21:03,229 --> 00:21:02,190
this became much bigger than the

484
00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:03,239
leadership at the times would have

485
00:21:15,560 --> 00:21:09,330
expected boy I just will have to

486
00:21:17,659 --> 00:21:15,570
disagree on this and I do okay just

487
00:21:20,899 --> 00:21:17,669
address the point I mean to me it's so

488
00:21:22,339 --> 00:21:20,909
patently just ludicrous and you know the

489
00:21:23,959 --> 00:21:22,349
other thing I always like to end what's

490
00:21:26,810 --> 00:21:23,969
ludicrous what's little Kris exactly

491
00:21:29,959 --> 00:21:26,820
first of all the idea that Louella Zadar

492
00:21:33,159 --> 00:21:29,969
is a whistleblower it's just it just

493
00:21:35,389 --> 00:21:33,169
doesn't it just doesn't add up but the

494
00:21:36,769 --> 00:21:35,399
whistleblower I think that she just did

495
00:21:38,479 --> 00:21:36,779
she just did she said he's a

496
00:21:40,339 --> 00:21:38,489
whistleblower and and I mean the idea

497
00:21:43,519 --> 00:21:40,349
that we met we met with the guy at the

498
00:21:46,430 --> 00:21:43,529
DoD but he's a whistleblower all the

499
00:21:49,129 --> 00:21:46,440
information he revealed well none of its

500
00:21:51,379 --> 00:21:49,139
classified or top-secret it's like I'm

501
00:21:51,980 --> 00:21:51,389
like I mentioned you know the kid who

502
00:21:58,370 --> 00:21:51,990
took

503
00:22:00,860 --> 00:21:58,380
being inside the submarine he's in

504
00:22:01,520 --> 00:22:00,870
prison and this is the biggest thing

505
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:01,530
ever

506
00:22:06,350 --> 00:22:03,930
this happened 15 days ago here I

507
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:06,360
wouldn't say that Elizondo necessarily

508
00:22:10,790 --> 00:22:07,890
classifies as a whistleblower I don't

509
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:10,800
know I mean he all of these people are

510
00:22:15,710 --> 00:22:13,770
self-serving so the folks at T TSA it's

511
00:22:17,450 --> 00:22:15,720
not like you know they're all angels and

512
00:22:20,930 --> 00:22:17,460
they have no other ulterior motives what

513
00:22:22,160 --> 00:22:20,940
they do it's all about money it's all

514
00:22:25,910 --> 00:22:22,170
about getting a piece of the action

515
00:22:27,770 --> 00:22:25,920
I I would hazard to guess that they want

516
00:22:29,270 --> 00:22:27,780
maybe they want some defense money maybe

517
00:22:31,190 --> 00:22:29,280
they want some contracts maybe they want

518
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:31,200
access to what they know is classified

519
00:22:36,440 --> 00:22:33,330
technology there may be other things

520
00:22:38,990 --> 00:22:36,450
going on here where it's not all

521
00:22:42,020 --> 00:22:39,000
philanthropic I I would be shocked if it

522
00:22:43,340 --> 00:22:42,030
were who whoever acts like that so I

523
00:22:45,710 --> 00:22:43,350
don't know there's the alternative

524
00:22:48,620 --> 00:22:45,720
here's the alternative read on that that

525
00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:48,630
that I take and a lot other people take

526
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:50,910
is that number one it's political the

527
00:22:55,790 --> 00:22:53,130
word political is important here not

528
00:22:57,500 --> 00:22:55,800
because I have any political stake in

529
00:23:00,560 --> 00:22:57,510
the left versus the right I think the

530
00:23:03,320 --> 00:23:00,570
whole thing's is a scripted nonsensical

531
00:23:04,940 --> 00:23:03,330
joke at this medium level and that

532
00:23:06,860 --> 00:23:04,950
there's a layer above it that just

533
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:06,870
ignores all that anyway but this is

534
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:10,080
clearly coming from the Podesta Clinton

535
00:23:14,210 --> 00:23:11,790
camp that was trying to release the year

536
00:23:16,400 --> 00:23:14,220
before it sure looked they were hooked

537
00:23:18,140 --> 00:23:16,410
up with Tom DeLonge and that whole thing

538
00:23:20,330 --> 00:23:18,150
and they were announcing they were kind

539
00:23:22,490 --> 00:23:20,340
of preheating us for the release they

540
00:23:24,410 --> 00:23:22,500
didn't win the election so they just

541
00:23:27,050 --> 00:23:24,420
kind of rolled it out anyway is how it

542
00:23:29,270 --> 00:23:27,060
looked to me I think the whole the whole

543
00:23:31,850 --> 00:23:29,280
thing the whole Peter Levin did Tom with

544
00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:31,860
a long thing it just was the story just

545
00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:33,090
never made any sense

546
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:35,310
Peter lavinda well you know Tom DeLonge

547
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:37,050
called me up I was like wow is this

548
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:39,510
really Tom DeLonge he's like yeah buddy

549
00:23:44,630 --> 00:23:42,330
we got to go to the CIA and get to the

550
00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:44,640
bottom of the UFO story because it's

551
00:23:50,360 --> 00:23:47,460
never been told it's like uh is this

552
00:23:52,730 --> 00:23:50,370
like some kind of bad screaming drink or

553
00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:52,740
some reality and some non reality in

554
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:55,410
that so I would say I've never believed

555
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:57,120
that Hillary and Podesta were ever gonna

556
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:00,480
be a disclosure team ever I don't I

557
00:24:02,870 --> 00:24:01,650
didn't believe it then I don't believe

558
00:24:04,340 --> 00:24:02,880
in now I don't think it would ever have

559
00:24:05,420 --> 00:24:04,350
happened if she had been elected

560
00:24:07,520 --> 00:24:05,430
president

561
00:24:09,260 --> 00:24:07,530
there would be no more disclosure than

562
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:09,270
there is now I don't think that was a

563
00:24:12,020 --> 00:24:09,810
plan

564
00:24:16,330 --> 00:24:12,030
I do believe Podesta is very smart and

565
00:24:19,700 --> 00:24:16,340
as a UFO savvy guy which he clearly is

566
00:24:21,470 --> 00:24:19,710
recognized that his candidate who was

567
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:21,480
desperately in need of an additional

568
00:24:26,930 --> 00:24:24,450
cool factor in her campaign could

569
00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:26,940
benefit from being kind of a UFO knowing

570
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:28,770
also that the New York Times would not

571
00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:30,450
trash her since they basically own the

572
00:24:35,140 --> 00:24:32,670
New York Times coverage anyway so she

573
00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:35,150
she could get away with being a UFO

574
00:24:41,690 --> 00:24:38,490
candidate go on Jimmy Kimmel you know

575
00:24:43,760 --> 00:24:41,700
try her hand at that whole thing and

576
00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:43,770
maybe win a few votes that's all that

577
00:24:48,710 --> 00:24:45,570
I've ever believed there's no evidence

578
00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:48,720
to me that in any of the DeLonge Podesta

579
00:24:53,330 --> 00:24:50,730
communications that Podesta was actually

580
00:24:55,370 --> 00:24:53,340
serious about this like someone please

581
00:24:57,860 --> 00:24:55,380
show me where where does Podesta show

582
00:25:01,570 --> 00:24:57,870
that yes we're gonna do disclosure this

583
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:01,580
is all day long all his thing Podesta

584
00:25:07,010 --> 00:25:04,290
allowed some communications to happen

585
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:07,020
and then of course the whole thing was

586
00:25:10,670 --> 00:25:08,910
they turned the lights on WikiLeaks came

587
00:25:14,500 --> 00:25:10,680
out and they all ran for cover and put

588
00:25:19,370 --> 00:25:14,510
it and along came up with his B team but

589
00:25:21,890 --> 00:25:19,380
Hillary thing I don't I I don't think I

590
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:21,900
believe that okay I think that they were

591
00:25:28,910 --> 00:25:26,010
I think put DeLong's people might have

592
00:25:30,410 --> 00:25:28,920
had these had these illusions yes I

593
00:25:31,850 --> 00:25:30,420
think that's entirely possible that they

594
00:25:33,610 --> 00:25:31,860
would have thought oh yes we're gonna

595
00:25:38,120 --> 00:25:33,620
get Hillary and Podesta to be disclosure

596
00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:38,130
candidates but I seriously doubt that

597
00:25:42,230 --> 00:25:40,080
Hillary Clinton or Podesta would have

598
00:25:44,000 --> 00:25:42,240
considered moving ahead with a UFO

599
00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:44,010
disclosure well one of the things that

600
00:25:48,530 --> 00:25:45,930
people really appreciate about your work

601
00:25:50,120 --> 00:25:48,540
Richard and I respect as well is you

602
00:25:53,750 --> 00:25:50,130
move very carefully

603
00:25:56,180 --> 00:25:53,760
according to direct evidence that you

604
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:56,190
have are you we can't really say direct

605
00:26:00,950 --> 00:25:57,720
evidence but as close as you can get to

606
00:26:05,030 --> 00:26:00,960
five-seven it's I respect that try at

607
00:26:06,770 --> 00:26:05,040
the same time I think I think there is a

608
00:26:08,600 --> 00:26:06,780
need to kind of fill in some of these

609
00:26:11,150 --> 00:26:08,610
blanks and that's what I'm trying to do

610
00:26:14,210 --> 00:26:11,160
here as well but let's move on to kind

611
00:26:16,670 --> 00:26:14,220
of a relay enjoy this I just discussing

612
00:26:18,930 --> 00:26:16,680
this well when I listen to your

613
00:26:21,599 --> 00:26:18,940
Copenhagen presentation I

614
00:26:24,589 --> 00:26:21,609
kinda think here in many respects in the

615
00:26:26,729 --> 00:26:24,599
same camp when you lay out really the

616
00:26:29,999 --> 00:26:26,739
like you say the walk The Washington

617
00:26:32,039 --> 00:26:30,009
Post and his appearance on Fox that is

618
00:26:34,409 --> 00:26:32,049
Lou Elizondo and then all this other

619
00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:34,419
stuff you kind of make the case on both

620
00:26:38,580 --> 00:26:36,190
sides and that you come down on one or

621
00:26:40,889 --> 00:26:38,590
the other which is totally I get respect

622
00:26:44,339 --> 00:26:40,899
here's something we're gonna move on to

623
00:26:46,919 --> 00:26:44,349
what do you dubbed the leak of the

624
00:26:49,169 --> 00:26:46,929
century yes and we're going to talk

625
00:26:52,109 --> 00:26:49,179
about that but we're gonna and that is

626
00:26:55,440 --> 00:26:52,119
the release five of the Thomas Wilson

627
00:26:57,869 --> 00:26:55,450
memo but I'm gonna do it through the

628
00:27:01,499 --> 00:26:57,879
words of this guy who we see up on the

629
00:27:04,680 --> 00:27:01,509
screen dr. Edgar Mitchell Apollo

630
00:27:06,599 --> 00:27:04,690
astronaut support our troop dr. Edgar

631
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:06,609
Mitchell let me play a couple of clips

632
00:27:09,419 --> 00:27:07,690
from this and I might have to skip

633
00:27:12,269 --> 00:27:09,429
around because a long clip but I want to

634
00:27:13,799 --> 00:27:12,279
get a couple of things in there so first

635
00:27:17,310 --> 00:27:13,809
I thought we just play a little bit of

636
00:27:23,430 --> 00:27:17,320
the Afro because the guy is so I call to

637
00:27:27,210 --> 00:27:23,440
the podium a distinguished American man

638
00:27:31,589 --> 00:27:27,220
who is in fact someone who has the right

639
00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:31,599
stuff we includes a doctor in

640
00:27:38,330 --> 00:27:34,710
aeronautics and Astronautics from MIT

641
00:27:41,339 --> 00:27:38,340
selection to the NASA Apollo program

642
00:27:48,749 --> 00:27:41,349
selection to a bass it's going to go

643
00:27:51,889 --> 00:27:48,759
through his long list yeah this now he's

644
00:28:01,889 --> 00:27:51,899
going to be talking about husband French

645
00:28:04,289 --> 00:28:01,899
people because I just add in here Edgar

646
00:28:09,119 --> 00:28:04,299
Mitchell is from Texas but it really

647
00:28:10,919 --> 00:28:09,129
claims to be from Roswell because people

648
00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:10,929
like in the Sheriff's Department who had

649
00:28:18,509 --> 00:28:13,210
been to the crash site and were

650
00:28:21,599 --> 00:28:18,519
supervising traffic my friend and friend

651
00:28:23,129 --> 00:28:21,609
of our family the major who was so

652
00:28:25,289 --> 00:28:23,139
because he does have a little bit of

653
00:28:27,839 --> 00:28:25,299
that Texas draw in here in New Yorker

654
00:28:31,919 --> 00:28:27,849
and I'm a Chicago guy we needed speed up

655
00:28:32,820 --> 00:28:31,929
here he basically says and I want you to

656
00:28:35,639 --> 00:28:32,830
respond to this yeah

657
00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:35,649
any doubters about Roswell should be

658
00:28:40,590 --> 00:28:37,570
doubters know more about Apollo

659
00:28:42,870 --> 00:28:40,600
astronaut walked on the moon 2009 he

660
00:28:44,970 --> 00:28:42,880
comes and says hey it's real I know it

661
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:44,980
from the best authorities that I have

662
00:28:49,649 --> 00:28:46,570
and I'm a local and I know it and it

663
00:28:52,350 --> 00:28:49,659
also jives with what I know from my

664
00:28:53,970 --> 00:28:52,360
professional career so that we're going

665
00:28:55,919 --> 00:28:53,980
to put a pin in that but I do want you

666
00:28:59,159 --> 00:28:55,929
to come back to address it and I wanted

667
00:29:01,740 --> 00:28:59,169
to bring go forward a little bit in this

668
00:29:04,860 --> 00:29:01,750
conversation to the real point of what I

669
00:29:10,830 --> 00:29:04,870
was trying to get you to respond to get

670
00:29:13,680 --> 00:29:10,840
that and about 10 years ago and I can't

671
00:29:17,399 --> 00:29:13,690
remember what date it was right now when

672
00:29:20,310 --> 00:29:17,409
the disclosure movement was under going

673
00:29:25,139 --> 00:29:20,320
strongly I came here to Washington with

674
00:29:28,350 --> 00:29:25,149
a navy commander the name of $12 and dr.

675
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:28,360
Steven Greer and we had were able to get

676
00:29:32,970 --> 00:29:30,850
an appointment at the Pentagon to talk

677
00:29:34,919 --> 00:29:32,980
about what we do who are what we

678
00:29:40,529 --> 00:29:34,929
allegedly knew what we thought we know

679
00:29:42,419 --> 00:29:40,539
and Witten told our strawberry and the

680
00:29:46,019 --> 00:29:42,429
power should be in the Intelligence

681
00:29:52,049 --> 00:29:46,029
Committee of the Joint Chiefs of Staff

682
00:29:55,320 --> 00:29:52,059
listen to our story and said the Admiral

683
00:29:56,519 --> 00:29:55,330
said well I don't know that story I

684
00:30:00,080 --> 00:29:56,529
don't know that that's true

685
00:30:03,060 --> 00:30:00,090
but I will find out so we departed

686
00:30:05,879 --> 00:30:03,070
because I want you to pick up and you've

687
00:30:10,139 --> 00:30:05,889
written extensively and done some

688
00:30:13,169 --> 00:30:10,149
extensive shows on this and again you

689
00:30:15,060 --> 00:30:13,179
dubbed it the what leak did you say you

690
00:30:16,529 --> 00:30:15,070
have a leak of the century so people

691
00:30:17,970 --> 00:30:16,539
learn a little bit and tell us what

692
00:30:19,649 --> 00:30:17,980
Edgar Mitchell's talking about

693
00:30:22,080 --> 00:30:19,659
absolutely I'm glad you found that clip

694
00:30:24,710 --> 00:30:22,090
by the way Alex I was sitting in that

695
00:30:27,750 --> 00:30:24,720
audience looking at him he did that and

696
00:30:32,940 --> 00:30:27,760
it's funny how I forgot this is a 2009

697
00:30:34,970 --> 00:30:32,950
that was yeah yeah but anyway I've known

698
00:30:40,409 --> 00:30:34,980
about this since 2006

699
00:30:43,139 --> 00:30:40,419
so in fact I communicated with Edgar

700
00:30:45,149 --> 00:30:43,149
about that in back in oh six as well but

701
00:30:46,530 --> 00:30:45,159
essentially here's here's a story back

702
00:30:49,710 --> 00:30:46,540
in 1997 a

703
00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:49,720
that year Edgar Mitchell commander will

704
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:51,820
Miller who we just mentioned dr. Steven

705
00:30:56,190 --> 00:30:54,490
Greer a couple of other people Greer was

706
00:30:59,340 --> 00:30:56,200
really leading this effort at the time

707
00:31:01,230 --> 00:30:59,350
to make the rounds in Washington to talk

708
00:31:04,530 --> 00:31:01,240
to anyone within Congress anyone in

709
00:31:08,730 --> 00:31:04,540
power about the UFO cover-up issue and

710
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:08,740
and his particular take largely accurate

711
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:11,610
I would have to say on black-budget

712
00:31:15,390 --> 00:31:13,570
nature of the UFO cover-up the

713
00:31:16,980 --> 00:31:15,400
privatization the rogue nature of the

714
00:31:20,310 --> 00:31:16,990
secrecy as I think he would call it and

715
00:31:21,660 --> 00:31:20,320
I would call it so let me just interject

716
00:31:24,480 --> 00:31:21,670
here so I want you to break that down

717
00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:24,490
for people because I'd listen to like to

718
00:31:29,370 --> 00:31:26,530
Bauer's that you've given on that and

719
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:29,380
it's spellbinding in terms of these

720
00:31:35,460 --> 00:31:33,330
secret programs the different levels of

721
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:35,470
authorization non authorization

722
00:31:39,990 --> 00:31:36,850
knowledge that's it and then the

723
00:31:42,930 --> 00:31:40,000
privatization thing in the it's really a

724
00:31:45,390 --> 00:31:42,940
ploy to move it outside of the purview

725
00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:45,400
of the Freedom of Information Act so

726
00:31:50,250 --> 00:31:48,370
just kind of at a high level go over

727
00:31:53,520 --> 00:31:50,260
that game that's being played as that

728
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:53,530
fits into this well let me I'll continue

729
00:31:57,510 --> 00:31:56,110
by just by telling the story but I will

730
00:32:00,270 --> 00:31:57,520
definitely want to bring that analytic

731
00:32:02,070 --> 00:32:00,280
in because it's important when it ended

732
00:32:04,710 --> 00:32:02,080
up happening and and everyone has agreed

733
00:32:06,390 --> 00:32:04,720
to this that that Greer and his group

734
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:06,400
were able to meet with Admiral Thomas R

735
00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:09,690
Wilson who at the time was vice chair of

736
00:32:14,700 --> 00:32:11,470
intelligence for the Joint Chiefs of

737
00:32:16,650 --> 00:32:14,710
Staff the position known as j2 very

738
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:16,660
shortly after that Wilson became head of

739
00:32:20,550 --> 00:32:18,130
intelligence for the Joint Chiefs and

740
00:32:22,050 --> 00:32:20,560
then within two years of that became

741
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:22,060
head of the Defense Intelligence Agency

742
00:32:27,570 --> 00:32:24,310
then retired went off into private

743
00:32:31,170 --> 00:32:27,580
industry in the early Bush years but

744
00:32:33,390 --> 00:32:31,180
here we are 97 and Greer actually did a

745
00:32:35,460 --> 00:32:33,400
presentation for Wilson and Wilson's

746
00:32:38,280 --> 00:32:35,470
colleagues and one of Wilson's bosses

747
00:32:40,260 --> 00:32:38,290
and other colleagues were there and it

748
00:32:43,200 --> 00:32:40,270
was all about UFOs in fact one of the

749
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:43,210
things mentioned was Philip J Corsos

750
00:32:48,660 --> 00:32:45,010
book the day after Roswell

751
00:32:52,820 --> 00:32:48,670
so UFO crashes so all of that is

752
00:32:55,920 --> 00:32:52,830
official in 2006 someone very close to

753
00:32:57,420 --> 00:32:55,930
all of that but not at the meeting with

754
00:33:00,720 --> 00:32:57,430
someone close to Mitchell someone close

755
00:33:04,409 --> 00:33:00,730
to that whole group

756
00:33:07,169 --> 00:33:04,419
met with me personally and we and showed

757
00:33:09,149 --> 00:33:07,179
me a couple of pages and I've never

758
00:33:11,639 --> 00:33:09,159
remembered if it's two or three pages

759
00:33:13,830 --> 00:33:11,649
it's one or the other might be two pages

760
00:33:15,450 --> 00:33:13,840
might be three pages of what looked like

761
00:33:18,210 --> 00:33:15,460
a transcript of sorts it turned out to

762
00:33:21,810 --> 00:33:18,220
be Eric Davis's notes but a transcript

763
00:33:24,450 --> 00:33:21,820
between one person writing down his

764
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:24,460
interview with someone else and this

765
00:33:30,299 --> 00:33:26,890
individual that I was speaking with told

766
00:33:33,750 --> 00:33:30,309
me yeah this person was in the Joint

767
00:33:36,269 --> 00:33:33,760
Chiefs and met with career and was told

768
00:33:38,909 --> 00:33:36,279
about the black budget program of UFOs

769
00:33:42,930 --> 00:33:38,919
and went looking and within two months

770
00:33:44,820 --> 00:33:42,940
was found the program or one of the

771
00:33:47,220 --> 00:33:44,830
programs and then was denied access by

772
00:33:48,510 --> 00:33:47,230
the lawyers by the corporate lawyer and

773
00:33:50,490 --> 00:33:48,520
the program manager because he didn't

774
00:33:52,799 --> 00:33:50,500
ever need to know and was very upset

775
00:33:54,210 --> 00:33:52,809
about it so and then the other thing was

776
00:33:55,769 --> 00:33:54,220
that he got a that I remembered reading

777
00:33:57,960 --> 00:33:55,779
is that he had confirmation that this

778
00:34:01,889 --> 00:33:57,970
was technology not of this earth not

779
00:34:03,750 --> 00:34:01,899
made by human hands I wasn't given any

780
00:34:05,159 --> 00:34:03,760
names during that meeting but shortly

781
00:34:06,870 --> 00:34:05,169
after that I read Stephen Guerrero's

782
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,880
book hidden truth forbidden knowledge

783
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:08,320
where he wrote about his meeting with

784
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:10,990
Wilson and I wrote back to my contact I

785
00:34:16,079 --> 00:34:12,879
said oh I guess I know who it is it's

786
00:34:17,609 --> 00:34:16,089
Wilson and he said yep ended up having a

787
00:34:19,859 --> 00:34:17,619
quick phone conversation with Admiral

788
00:34:20,940 --> 00:34:19,869
Wilson I communicated with Edgar

789
00:34:23,579 --> 00:34:20,950
Mitchell about this

790
00:34:29,730 --> 00:34:23,589
I even communicated with Steven Greer

791
00:34:32,849 --> 00:34:29,740
briefly and long story short Wilson

792
00:34:34,829 --> 00:34:32,859
would not admit whatsoever first that he

793
00:34:36,899 --> 00:34:34,839
even had the meeting then he was forced

794
00:34:38,399 --> 00:34:36,909
to admit he had the meeting and then

795
00:34:39,839 --> 00:34:38,409
said no but I never did anything after

796
00:34:41,879 --> 00:34:39,849
that I never looked into it so it was

797
00:34:43,820 --> 00:34:41,889
nonsense which is patently untrue and

798
00:34:46,829 --> 00:34:43,830
here's you have Mitchell's statement

799
00:34:48,510 --> 00:34:46,839
saying that that Wilson did look into it

800
00:34:50,579 --> 00:34:48,520
of course we don't really know like no

801
00:34:54,089 --> 00:34:50,589
one literally would know but what we do

802
00:34:57,180 --> 00:34:54,099
have is Eric Davis of National Institute

803
00:34:58,500 --> 00:34:57,190
of Discovery Science who was friendly

804
00:35:00,450 --> 00:34:58,510
with Edgar Mitchell they were all on the

805
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:00,460
knids board back in those days run by

806
00:35:06,030 --> 00:35:03,490
Robert Bigelow the head of the board was

807
00:35:08,550 --> 00:35:06,040
kicked green another important member

808
00:35:10,290 --> 00:35:08,560
was helped put off Colm Kelleher all of

809
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:10,300
these people they all knew each other

810
00:35:15,700 --> 00:35:13,010
and what I always call them as Bigelow

811
00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:15,710
club they're the people trying to work

812
00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:17,510
their way into the labyrinth they all

813
00:35:21,220 --> 00:35:19,310
had their own security clearances to one

814
00:35:24,070 --> 00:35:21,230
extent or another they all knew a lot

815
00:35:26,890 --> 00:35:24,080
about UFOs they all shared what they

816
00:35:30,250 --> 00:35:26,900
could share on this matter and they did

817
00:35:35,530 --> 00:35:30,260
it for years and they still do the

818
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:35,540
accepted again so so here in 2002 Davis

819
00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:38,530
has an opportunity to meet with Wilson

820
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:40,220
where's the two thousand three two

821
00:35:45,610 --> 00:35:42,710
thousand three excuse me he has an

822
00:35:49,270 --> 00:35:45,620
opportunity to meet with Wilson and he

823
00:35:51,790 --> 00:35:49,280
goes and it's an roughly an hour or so

824
00:35:53,230 --> 00:35:51,800
long meeting and it's in a car and Davis

825
00:35:55,870 --> 00:35:53,240
either had recorded it or wrote these

826
00:35:59,110 --> 00:35:55,880
notes down and brings it back to the

827
00:36:05,560 --> 00:35:59,120
crew back to greenback to putt off back

828
00:36:11,260 --> 00:36:05,570
to Bigelow back to Mitchell and and when

829
00:36:15,550 --> 00:36:11,270
Mitchell died you know in 2017 his

830
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:15,560
papers mostly were taken by his family

831
00:36:20,560 --> 00:36:17,090
like his Apollo stuff and all of that

832
00:36:21,610 --> 00:36:20,570
but the papers that had to do with mids

833
00:36:23,970 --> 00:36:21,620
the papers that had to do with

834
00:36:26,980 --> 00:36:23,980
consciousness that had to do with UFOs

835
00:36:28,390 --> 00:36:26,990
they were going to be destroyed and the

836
00:36:32,170 --> 00:36:28,400
family had no interest in it but one

837
00:36:34,180 --> 00:36:32,180
individual and I've actually don't know

838
00:36:38,260 --> 00:36:34,190
the person's full name anyway so it's no

839
00:36:42,910 --> 00:36:38,270
point but I know about this person was

840
00:36:45,250 --> 00:36:42,920
able allowed legally to take a certain

841
00:36:47,890 --> 00:36:45,260
amount of these papers out of the house

842
00:36:51,220 --> 00:36:47,900
and they have some of them had been jpg

843
00:36:55,300 --> 00:36:51,230
and one of those papers are the Eric

844
00:36:56,920 --> 00:36:55,310
Davis notes that you know were about his

845
00:36:59,050 --> 00:36:56,930
meeting with Thomas Wilson that

846
00:37:01,840 --> 00:36:59,060
confirmed things like mj-12

847
00:37:03,700 --> 00:37:01,850
that confirm the deep privatization of

848
00:37:06,010 --> 00:37:03,710
the UFO secret which we could get into

849
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:06,020
that confirm Wilson's utter frustration

850
00:37:12,820 --> 00:37:09,770
at attempting and failing to get into

851
00:37:14,980 --> 00:37:12,830
this black budget world of special

852
00:37:18,220 --> 00:37:14,990
access program reverse engineering UFO

853
00:37:21,340 --> 00:37:18,230
Tech and maybe even et bodies although

854
00:37:24,790 --> 00:37:21,350
that didn't come up in the notes so all

855
00:37:26,260 --> 00:37:24,800
of that and I am personally waiting for

856
00:37:28,060 --> 00:37:26,270
more of these notes to come out

857
00:37:29,260 --> 00:37:28,070
know that there are more I don't know if

858
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:29,270
they're bombshells I don't know if

859
00:37:32,010 --> 00:37:29,930
they're duds

860
00:37:34,360 --> 00:37:32,020
but I know that there's more and I think

861
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:34,370
I'm hopeful that there will be more of

862
00:37:38,560 --> 00:37:36,290
these that come out now relating to UFO

863
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:38,570
privatization I'll simply Oh before you

864
00:37:43,090 --> 00:37:42,050
get into that are you a little bit too

865
00:37:45,220 --> 00:37:43,100
comfortable with that

866
00:37:47,290 --> 00:37:45,230
have you been desensitized to that a

867
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:47,300
little bit Richard because here's my

868
00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:49,610
point you know you've done an awesome

869
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:52,700
job so this has now reached the Dolan

870
00:37:56,980 --> 00:37:55,310
level of credibility which you already

871
00:37:59,080 --> 00:37:56,990
have told this is pretty high you need

872
00:38:01,930 --> 00:37:59,090
the sources you need the documents you

873
00:38:06,420 --> 00:38:01,940
know and now you have the documents you

874
00:38:08,860 --> 00:38:06,430
say ad after disclosure are we after

875
00:38:12,580 --> 00:38:08,870
Constitution when we have these

876
00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:12,590
high-level people in disclosing that you

877
00:38:18,070 --> 00:38:15,110
know this support and defend the

878
00:38:20,260 --> 00:38:18,080
Constitution against all powers foreign

879
00:38:22,240 --> 00:38:20,270
and domestic which is what everyone

880
00:38:24,130 --> 00:38:22,250
pledges all these guys who are the

881
00:38:26,860 --> 00:38:24,140
military that was their pledge Edgar

882
00:38:28,360 --> 00:38:26,870
Mitchell that was his pledge and you can

883
00:38:30,370 --> 00:38:28,370
say he's a good guy or he didn't

884
00:38:33,370 --> 00:38:30,380
disclose enough but that was his pledge

885
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:33,380
Wilson that was his plan and they're not

886
00:38:38,920 --> 00:38:36,530
doing it and you know are we at a

887
00:38:41,860 --> 00:38:38,930
different point where we've totally

888
00:38:43,420 --> 00:38:41,870
given up on the idea that we need to

889
00:38:45,940 --> 00:38:43,430
hold these people accountable is that

890
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:45,950
just kind of out the window and good

891
00:38:49,060 --> 00:38:47,210
question where we are at a post

892
00:38:51,490 --> 00:38:49,070
constitutional phase I mean look we're

893
00:38:53,860 --> 00:38:51,500
in a an upside-down world where what I

894
00:38:55,450 --> 00:38:53,870
call this thing now legal illegalities

895
00:39:00,820 --> 00:38:55,460
that's really what it is it's like this

896
00:39:03,480 --> 00:39:00,830
legal framework to to protect what is

897
00:39:08,650 --> 00:39:03,490
fundamentally should be illegal in any

898
00:39:12,730 --> 00:39:11,050
that's huge you say that again I mean

899
00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:12,740
what that's what I say you know you're

900
00:39:17,530 --> 00:39:14,810
awesome but some legal illegality yeah

901
00:39:21,250 --> 00:39:17,540
your calmness the calmness that you

902
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:21,260
bring to that the poly side calmness you

903
00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:25,310
know it doesn't fully bring people into

904
00:39:30,220 --> 00:39:28,130
what you're saying about this point we

905
00:39:32,160 --> 00:39:30,230
are in this thing we call the United

906
00:39:34,660 --> 00:39:32,170
States and we're talking about really

907
00:39:35,980 --> 00:39:34,670
jumping past maybe I have been

908
00:39:37,900 --> 00:39:35,990
desensitized I've been talking about

909
00:39:39,840 --> 00:39:37,910
this for 20 years I mean since 9/11

910
00:39:42,570 --> 00:39:39,850
again it's a lot of trouble

911
00:39:44,880 --> 00:39:42,580
to Psalm at least over my 911 comments

912
00:39:46,620 --> 00:39:44,890
that's a whole other episode perhaps but

913
00:39:48,570 --> 00:39:46,630
I've been I've been on the other side of

914
00:39:49,950 --> 00:39:48,580
this for a long time and I've I don't

915
00:39:53,040 --> 00:39:49,960
think I've been under an illusion that

916
00:39:54,870 --> 00:39:53,050
we have a truly functioning Democratic

917
00:39:56,550 --> 00:39:54,880
Republican system I hold on to the dream

918
00:39:59,690 --> 00:39:56,560
of that because what else can I hold on

919
00:40:02,070 --> 00:39:59,700
to we what we're living in is a world of

920
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:02,080
24/7 global fascistic type of

921
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:03,760
surveillance set in which no one will

922
00:40:07,980 --> 00:40:05,770
ever have an inkling the privacy ever

923
00:40:09,810 --> 00:40:07,990
again for the rest of our lifetimes and

924
00:40:11,250 --> 00:40:09,820
our grandchildren's lifetimes and I'm

925
00:40:14,070 --> 00:40:11,260
still trying to wrap my head around that

926
00:40:16,740 --> 00:40:14,080
so that's a whole other thing so we're

927
00:40:19,170 --> 00:40:16,750
living in a completely different world

928
00:40:21,720 --> 00:40:19,180
than what we were taught in our fifth

929
00:40:23,640 --> 00:40:21,730
grade civics class of what American life

930
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:23,650
is supposed to be and that goes for any

931
00:40:30,150 --> 00:40:26,290
country but in terms of the secrecy of

932
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:30,160
UFOs it's so it is so profound it's so

933
00:40:38,820 --> 00:40:34,210
deep so for example when this whole leak

934
00:40:41,460 --> 00:40:38,830
came out all right I wrote I got a I got

935
00:40:42,810 --> 00:40:41,470
a no comment from how put off and I got

936
00:40:44,940 --> 00:40:42,820
a no comment a month later from kid

937
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:44,950
green and I'm just gonna say like I know

938
00:40:48,750 --> 00:40:46,810
both of these guys reasonably well

939
00:40:52,890 --> 00:40:48,760
particularly putt-off I've known for

940
00:40:56,040 --> 00:40:52,900
years and I just said you know look why

941
00:40:59,520 --> 00:40:56,050
don't why doesn't your group come out

942
00:41:01,260 --> 00:40:59,530
and own these documents because you know

943
00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:01,270
they're real you know it's the real deal

944
00:41:06,740 --> 00:41:04,690
just for posterity you're all getting up

945
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:06,750
there like what are you hanging on to

946
00:41:14,550 --> 00:41:12,910
why are you doing this and you know all

947
00:41:18,720 --> 00:41:14,560
of them it's not just it's not just him

948
00:41:22,590 --> 00:41:18,730
it's all of them they're all in this

949
00:41:25,170 --> 00:41:22,600
world of clearances and they are

950
00:41:27,870 --> 00:41:25,180
terrified of losing their clearances all

951
00:41:29,640 --> 00:41:27,880
of them every last one they they don't

952
00:41:31,470 --> 00:41:29,650
want to acknowledge and and the funny

953
00:41:33,780 --> 00:41:31,480
thing about this particular document is

954
00:41:35,310 --> 00:41:33,790
this is Eric Davis's private notes the

955
00:41:37,410 --> 00:41:35,320
document itself is not a classified

956
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:37,420
government document it's a private

957
00:41:44,700 --> 00:41:41,130
document about a classified program and

958
00:41:47,790 --> 00:41:44,710
legally there's nothing classified about

959
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:47,800
that document like there's no reason

960
00:41:52,050 --> 00:41:50,110
that it should have to be classified

961
00:41:53,460 --> 00:41:52,060
it's a private document written by Eric

962
00:41:55,560 --> 00:41:53,470
Davis about a meeting

963
00:41:58,350 --> 00:41:55,570
with someone about a classified subject

964
00:42:00,600 --> 00:41:58,360
and yet they still won't own it because

965
00:42:02,730 --> 00:42:00,610
it will reflect badly on them and they

966
00:42:05,190 --> 00:42:02,740
don't want to lose the clearances that

967
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:05,200
they've had I spoke to someone in that

968
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:08,410
in that crowd a number of years ago who

969
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:12,160
told me explicitly about their knowledge

970
00:42:18,780 --> 00:42:14,650
of deep black programs that have alien

971
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:18,790
tech and alien bodies and and they this

972
00:42:23,850 --> 00:42:21,970
person said yeah and what do I do with

973
00:42:25,470 --> 00:42:23,860
this information he said what if I told

974
00:42:28,560 --> 00:42:25,480
you that I know the names of like the

975
00:42:31,350 --> 00:42:28,570
top 10 12 15 people who are most in on

976
00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:31,360
this secret and and I leaked that

977
00:42:34,980 --> 00:42:32,650
information let's say a leak into the

978
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:34,990
air New York Times hey what would the

979
00:42:38,400 --> 00:42:36,310
New York Times do with it probably

980
00:42:40,950 --> 00:42:38,410
nothing but if the New York Times were

981
00:42:42,390 --> 00:42:40,960
to publish it it would very likely be

982
00:42:43,890 --> 00:42:42,400
traced back to me and I would lose all

983
00:42:47,160 --> 00:42:43,900
of my clearances and then I'm out of the

984
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:47,170
game and so that's the game all these

985
00:42:49,620 --> 00:42:49,090
people are playing now then there's

986
00:42:51,150 --> 00:42:49,630
threats

987
00:42:55,050 --> 00:42:51,160
I wrote to Mitchell on one occasion

988
00:42:56,670 --> 00:42:55,060
about this I was writing to Edgar

989
00:42:59,970 --> 00:42:56,680
Mitchell a lot in oh six oh seven oh

990
00:43:02,280 --> 00:42:59,980
eight and I said look you know you told

991
00:43:05,040 --> 00:43:02,290
me personally one time and Mitchell did

992
00:43:08,220 --> 00:43:05,050
it oh four he told me alone in a room he

993
00:43:10,260 --> 00:43:08,230
said he had two individuals at the

994
00:43:13,050 --> 00:43:10,270
highest level clearances who confirmed

995
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:13,060
to him the existence of alien bodies and

996
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:15,610
ET tech being held Mitchell said this to

997
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:17,650
me in 2004 and he made this statement

998
00:43:21,960 --> 00:43:20,050
once or twice publicly but he said it to

999
00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:21,970
me and I wrote to him a few years later

1000
00:43:25,560 --> 00:43:24,010
and said look you tell me you like my

1001
00:43:28,410 --> 00:43:25,570
work so why don't you throw me a bone

1002
00:43:30,810 --> 00:43:28,420
and point me in a direction that can

1003
00:43:32,970 --> 00:43:30,820
help me I'm not asking you to give up

1004
00:43:36,300 --> 00:43:32,980
anyone but can you just give me

1005
00:43:39,060 --> 00:43:36,310
something and and what he wrote back was

1006
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:39,070
kind of amazing he said look I support

1007
00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:41,410
what you do however the people who came

1008
00:43:47,330 --> 00:43:44,350
to me did who gave me this information

1009
00:43:50,640 --> 00:43:47,340
did so at great risk he said

1010
00:43:52,980 --> 00:43:50,650
professionally personally and risk to

1011
00:43:54,540 --> 00:43:52,990
their families and I will not

1012
00:43:55,740 --> 00:43:54,550
essentially he will not further Munder

1013
00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:55,750
the bus while they were still alive and

1014
00:43:59,230 --> 00:43:56,660
he never

1015
00:44:01,740 --> 00:43:59,240
so risk to their families you know you

1016
00:44:03,460 --> 00:44:01,750
fill in the blank what that means but

1017
00:44:06,250 --> 00:44:03,470
these people

1018
00:44:09,070 --> 00:44:06,260
there's carrot-and-stick for them both

1019
00:44:10,270 --> 00:44:09,080
like the carrot is you play ball you're

1020
00:44:12,040 --> 00:44:10,280
a team player it's like being in

1021
00:44:14,770 --> 00:44:12,050
Goodfellas like you're a made man you

1022
00:44:16,780 --> 00:44:14,780
get you get all of these nice little

1023
00:44:19,510 --> 00:44:16,790
openings in your career for you if you

1024
00:44:22,270 --> 00:44:19,520
do not play ball they bring the hammer

1025
00:44:24,400 --> 00:44:22,280
down and however hard what one of them

1026
00:44:28,060 --> 00:44:24,410
also said this to me all right I'm not

1027
00:44:29,740 --> 00:44:28,070
giving up names when I cannot give up a

1028
00:44:32,860 --> 00:44:29,750
name I will not give up a name but one

1029
00:44:35,500 --> 00:44:32,870
of them said a lot of these programs do

1030
00:44:38,170 --> 00:44:35,510
not require you to sign an NDA or

1031
00:44:42,520 --> 00:44:38,180
security he says look when you get into

1032
00:44:51,880 --> 00:44:42,530
these programs you know you don't talk

1033
00:44:53,290 --> 00:44:51,890
about it and the Mafia yeah but anyway

1034
00:44:57,460 --> 00:44:53,300
the privatization I'll just leave you

1035
00:44:59,320 --> 00:44:57,470
with this there was a very good article

1036
00:45:02,650 --> 00:44:59,330
I was led to early on in my research

1037
00:45:05,800 --> 00:45:02,660
like a 102 by a fella named Bill

1038
00:45:07,870 --> 00:45:05,810
Sweetman who is an aviation writer he's

1039
00:45:11,110 --> 00:45:07,880
still around he did a lot of work with

1040
00:45:14,470 --> 00:45:11,120
Jim Goodall on like stealth technology

1041
00:45:17,740 --> 00:45:14,480
not UFO so much really just advanced

1042
00:45:18,910 --> 00:45:17,750
aerospace aviation work Sweetman is a

1043
00:45:20,740 --> 00:45:18,920
really good writer he wrote on the

1044
00:45:23,050 --> 00:45:20,750
aurora craft your own stealth fighter

1045
00:45:25,210 --> 00:45:23,060
stealth bomber a lot of other he's a

1046
00:45:27,970 --> 00:45:25,220
real area 51 expert and he wrote this

1047
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:27,980
article for jane's international defense

1048
00:45:34,390 --> 00:45:32,870
in 2000 Kerli 2000 on i forget the name

1049
00:45:37,450 --> 00:45:34,400
of it black budget special access

1050
00:45:39,010 --> 00:45:37,460
programs and it was a good analysis for

1051
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:39,020
a mainstream journalist for sure and he

1052
00:45:44,950 --> 00:45:41,330
talked about how the SI p world is

1053
00:45:46,780 --> 00:45:44,960
dominated was even then by private money

1054
00:45:48,730 --> 00:45:46,790
not by DOD personnel he said when I

1055
00:45:51,640 --> 00:45:48,740
looked into this to my surprise I found

1056
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:51,650
that this is a totally privatized and

1057
00:45:56,290 --> 00:45:54,110
all the security clearances are held in

1058
00:45:57,940 --> 00:45:56,300
private industry and you know 10 years

1059
00:46:01,240 --> 00:45:57,950
later the Washington Post of all

1060
00:46:05,050 --> 00:46:01,250
publications did a study called think

1061
00:46:08,950 --> 00:46:05,060
America top secret Dana Miller bill

1062
00:46:10,270 --> 00:46:08,960
Arkin did that similar conclusions it's

1063
00:46:12,370 --> 00:46:10,280
just last summer I'm talking with kid

1064
00:46:16,060 --> 00:46:12,380
green about this and he says absolutely

1065
00:46:18,280 --> 00:46:16,070
it's all when you retire from the CIA or

1066
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,290
any federal group and you go into

1067
00:46:22,960 --> 00:46:20,720
private industry your clearances go up

1068
00:46:24,610 --> 00:46:22,970
and they become better and more numerous

1069
00:46:26,110 --> 00:46:24,620
he said because that's what the brain

1070
00:46:28,810 --> 00:46:26,120
power is that's where the money is

1071
00:46:30,850 --> 00:46:28,820
that's where the power is the federal

1072
00:46:32,770 --> 00:46:30,860
government in other words is just

1073
00:46:35,980 --> 00:46:32,780
holding the ball for these guys and your

1074
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:35,990
tax dollars my tax dollars pay for the

1075
00:46:43,450 --> 00:46:40,610
security of these privatized programs to

1076
00:46:45,040 --> 00:46:43,460
make [\h__\h] loads of money if I could say

1077
00:46:48,340 --> 00:46:45,050
that on your show if not you'll have to

1078
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:48,350
edit me happy um to say to make a lot of

1079
00:46:57,600 --> 00:46:53,330
money off of exotic technology some of

1080
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:00,970
not our own work so well we had we had

1081
00:47:06,160 --> 00:47:03,530
Diana Walsh Basilica on and you know her

1082
00:47:09,130 --> 00:47:06,170
book I'm nervous man I mean she just

1083
00:47:11,950 --> 00:47:09,140
directly lays it out you know here it is

1084
00:47:14,080 --> 00:47:11,960
here's the there's the secret College

1085
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:14,090
you know where stuff's brought in here's

1086
00:47:17,830 --> 00:47:16,850
the privatized Silicon Valley guys and

1087
00:47:18,580 --> 00:47:17,840
there's just no reason to believe that

1088
00:47:21,250 --> 00:47:18,590
isn't true

1089
00:47:24,670 --> 00:47:21,260
no she also hit right into that very

1090
00:47:25,750 --> 00:47:24,680
very and a weird way too because we're

1091
00:47:27,640 --> 00:47:25,760
gonna come back and swing down that

1092
00:47:29,560 --> 00:47:27,650
because the spirituality part you know

1093
00:47:31,420 --> 00:47:29,570
she kind of gets into to with the

1094
00:47:33,040 --> 00:47:31,430
Catholic Church and all that but I just

1095
00:47:36,030 --> 00:47:33,050
wanted to close the loop on what you

1096
00:47:39,460 --> 00:47:36,040
just said because the the privatization

1097
00:47:41,500 --> 00:47:39,470
first and foremost it's an end run on

1098
00:47:43,180 --> 00:47:41,510
the Constitution right something that

1099
00:47:46,780 --> 00:47:43,190
that's really what it's about

1100
00:47:48,580 --> 00:47:46,790
that's that's exactly so you have it I

1101
00:47:50,110 --> 00:47:48,590
mean what this is something that's been

1102
00:47:52,390 --> 00:47:50,120
going on since the bullet went through

1103
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:52,400
Abraham Lincoln's brain in 1865 if you

1104
00:48:00,040 --> 00:47:54,530
really go back to history this has been

1105
00:48:02,260 --> 00:48:00,050
going on since that moment and and it's

1106
00:48:04,360 --> 00:48:02,270
just one degree after another after

1107
00:48:07,120 --> 00:48:04,370
another and we're now in this

1108
00:48:10,210 --> 00:48:07,130
upside-down world where but and it's

1109
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:10,220
like I'm in my very first book I brought

1110
00:48:13,950 --> 00:48:11,410
in a quote

1111
00:48:16,349 --> 00:48:13,960
Nicolo Machiavelli from his discourses

1112
00:48:18,660 --> 00:48:16,359
on Livy the good book the great book and

1113
00:48:21,180 --> 00:48:18,670
he essentially said look if you really

1114
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:21,190
want to have a functioning revolution

1115
00:48:26,120 --> 00:48:24,130
like a revolution from above he says the

1116
00:48:29,069 --> 00:48:26,130
way to do it is you've got to retain a

1117
00:48:30,839 --> 00:48:29,079
semblance of the old forms because

1118
00:48:34,049 --> 00:48:30,849
that's all people notice that's all that

1119
00:48:35,819 --> 00:48:34,059
they're used to so it says if you you

1120
00:48:37,289 --> 00:48:35,829
can change the fundamental structure of

1121
00:48:39,450 --> 00:48:37,299
something but if you keep the exterior

1122
00:48:41,490 --> 00:48:39,460
looking the same way people will almost

1123
00:48:43,289 --> 00:48:41,500
inevitably go along and that's what's

1124
00:48:44,490 --> 00:48:43,299
exactly happening here so you've got you

1125
00:48:46,470 --> 00:48:44,500
still have presidents we still have

1126
00:48:49,410 --> 00:48:46,480
Supreme Court we still have the two

1127
00:48:51,839 --> 00:48:49,420
houses of Congress we have this system

1128
00:48:53,849 --> 00:48:51,849
in place but the bodies kind of dead and

1129
00:48:55,650 --> 00:48:53,859
it's like in the movie alien where the

1130
00:48:58,140 --> 00:48:55,660
thing comes out of the chest so you've

1131
00:49:01,140 --> 00:48:58,150
got this corpse and this new thing has

1132
00:49:02,970 --> 00:49:01,150
come out I called it the national

1133
00:49:05,039 --> 00:49:02,980
security state you can call it deep

1134
00:49:07,799 --> 00:49:05,049
state you can call it the global

1135
00:49:10,770 --> 00:49:07,809
financial system I mean it's something

1136
00:49:12,390 --> 00:49:10,780
that is standing behind and much more

1137
00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:12,400
powerful than our official political

1138
00:49:17,849 --> 00:49:16,210
institutions and how to get control back

1139
00:49:21,180 --> 00:49:17,859
in the name of the people is really our

1140
00:49:22,769 --> 00:49:21,190
single most important thing and relating

1141
00:49:24,529 --> 00:49:22,779
to UFOs I mean it's a fascinating

1142
00:49:26,450 --> 00:49:24,539
subject on every level to me

1143
00:49:29,430 --> 00:49:26,460
philosophically scientifically

1144
00:49:32,670 --> 00:49:29,440
absolutely but to me the most important

1145
00:49:34,829 --> 00:49:32,680
thing is politically because I'm not

1146
00:49:39,180 --> 00:49:34,839
interested in a world where this

1147
00:49:42,690 --> 00:49:39,190
disclosure happens to me in a completely

1148
00:49:44,370 --> 00:49:42,700
controlled manner by our social betters

1149
00:49:45,870 --> 00:49:44,380
and our political betters I got no

1150
00:49:47,640 --> 00:49:45,880
interest in that I just put me in a

1151
00:49:50,039 --> 00:49:47,650
rocket ship and I'll live on the moon I

1152
00:49:52,799 --> 00:49:50,049
don't want to live in this world I'm

1153
00:49:55,260 --> 00:49:52,809
interested in in getting to some level

1154
00:49:58,049 --> 00:49:55,270
of truth so that citizens can at least

1155
00:50:00,660 --> 00:49:58,059
have a dream of some level of

1156
00:50:07,890 --> 00:50:00,670
sovereignty and I think the UFO secret

1157
00:50:10,710 --> 00:50:07,900
has has seriously moved us it's not the

1158
00:50:13,650 --> 00:50:10,720
only thing that's created this this

1159
00:50:16,260 --> 00:50:13,660
world that we live in of a privatized

1160
00:50:18,029 --> 00:50:16,270
secrecy and legal illegality but it's

1161
00:50:20,700 --> 00:50:18,039
definitely contributed a lot and

1162
00:50:21,790 --> 00:50:20,710
political science people to this day

1163
00:50:23,320 --> 00:50:21,800
don't

1164
00:50:27,700 --> 00:50:23,330
appreciate just how important it has

1165
00:50:31,390 --> 00:50:27,710
been in creating that world I want to

1166
00:50:35,350 --> 00:50:31,400
move on I want to talk about good ET bad

1167
00:50:38,500 --> 00:50:35,360
ET because one of the things I also

1168
00:50:42,550 --> 00:50:38,510
really respect about your work Richard

1169
00:50:45,010 --> 00:50:42,560
is I feel like even though the political

1170
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:45,020
side the national security side is your

1171
00:50:51,190 --> 00:50:48,290
swing zone you've allowed yourself to be

1172
00:50:54,520 --> 00:50:51,200
stretched in some really important ways

1173
00:50:55,780 --> 00:50:54,530
and you seemed willing and I'm just

1174
00:50:59,410 --> 00:50:55,790
surprised at how many people are

1175
00:51:02,560 --> 00:50:59,420
unwilling to go over that next hill be

1176
00:51:05,440 --> 00:51:02,570
it consciousness be it spirituality be

1177
00:51:07,570 --> 00:51:05,450
it you're unbelievable four-part

1178
00:51:09,670 --> 00:51:07,580
interview series and maybe even grow

1179
00:51:11,980 --> 00:51:09,680
beyond that with Chris Bledsoe where

1180
00:51:16,300 --> 00:51:11,990
he's talking about angels and we're

1181
00:51:19,450 --> 00:51:16,310
gonna play a clip from that so you and

1182
00:51:20,940 --> 00:51:19,460
your wife Tracy who is an experiencer I

1183
00:51:23,620 --> 00:51:20,950
don't know does she call this up an

1184
00:51:25,570 --> 00:51:23,630
experience or an abductee I mean that's

1185
00:51:27,940 --> 00:51:25,580
something we can even pull up I think

1186
00:51:29,920 --> 00:51:27,950
she would probably say experience there

1187
00:51:31,300 --> 00:51:29,930
a good thing that's her go-to because

1188
00:51:33,070 --> 00:51:31,310
she doesn't she wouldn't say that she

1189
00:51:36,700 --> 00:51:33,080
knows she's an abductee so I was saying

1190
00:51:38,110 --> 00:51:36,710
that she she does she does believe

1191
00:51:40,630 --> 00:51:38,120
strongly that she's had a couple of

1192
00:51:44,170 --> 00:51:40,640
experiences with non-human intelligences

1193
00:51:47,440 --> 00:51:44,180
well you guys did an incredible YouTube

1194
00:51:51,400 --> 00:51:47,450
video on this that is like 80,000 views

1195
00:51:52,990 --> 00:51:51,410
and it's just incredible in terms of its

1196
00:51:54,370 --> 00:51:53,000
breadth and covering a lot of these

1197
00:51:56,800 --> 00:51:54,380
topics but there's some I wanted to

1198
00:51:58,510 --> 00:51:56,810
drill him further and I thought this

1199
00:52:00,310 --> 00:51:58,520
would be a time to do it and I think it

1200
00:52:01,600 --> 00:52:00,320
also pairs up well with as I was I

1201
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:01,610
saying the recent series you've done

1202
00:52:06,700 --> 00:52:03,890
with Chris Bledsoe here's a guy we both

1203
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:06,710
know and like respect grant camera and

1204
00:52:10,030 --> 00:52:08,450
he's been on my show a couple times I

1205
00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:10,040
know you're friends with them let me

1206
00:52:16,000 --> 00:52:12,890
play this clip from grant and then let's

1207
00:52:17,470 --> 00:52:16,010
talk about that his wife suddenly wants

1208
00:52:22,030 --> 00:52:17,480
to talk about I'd like to talk about

1209
00:52:24,610 --> 00:52:22,040
entanglement and I'm thinking why would

1210
00:52:27,070 --> 00:52:24,620
you ask us your husband is a PhD in

1211
00:52:30,280 --> 00:52:27,080
physics he's right he run the

1212
00:52:33,550 --> 00:52:30,290
parapsychology the they what they called

1213
00:52:36,010 --> 00:52:33,560
a phenomenology desk at the CIA with us

1214
00:52:39,280 --> 00:52:36,020
and what people have to realize is that

1215
00:52:41,380 --> 00:52:39,290
when the CIA calls it phenomenology that

1216
00:52:42,580 --> 00:52:41,390
is a hint as to what's going on it is

1217
00:52:46,300 --> 00:52:42,590
not UFOs its

1218
00:52:47,170 --> 00:52:46,310
remote-viewing ghosts parapsychology the

1219
00:52:48,970 --> 00:52:47,180
telepathy

1220
00:52:51,310 --> 00:52:48,980
it's the whole ball of wax because it's

1221
00:52:52,840 --> 00:52:51,320
all consciousness that's the ground of

1222
00:52:54,850 --> 00:52:52,850
being it's consciousness and they know

1223
00:52:57,490 --> 00:52:54,860
that and that's why when the Canadian

1224
00:52:59,410 --> 00:52:57,500
government documents said in 1950 that

1225
00:53:00,490 --> 00:52:59,420
mental phenomena may be involved the

1226
00:53:02,710 --> 00:53:00,500
top-secret finding government documents

1227
00:53:04,390 --> 00:53:02,720
said mental phenomena may be involved in

1228
00:53:05,890 --> 00:53:04,400
flying saucers that's when they started

1229
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:05,900
the MKULTRA stop that's when they

1230
00:53:08,950 --> 00:53:07,250
started all acting trying to figure out

1231
00:53:11,560 --> 00:53:08,960
how to consciousness work because they

1232
00:53:13,300 --> 00:53:11,570
had a live alien in 1947 that's how the

1233
00:53:15,310 --> 00:53:13,310
Americans knew to tell the Canadians in

1234
00:53:17,680 --> 00:53:15,320
1950 the mental phenomena was involved

1235
00:53:19,420 --> 00:53:17,690
nobody was talking to aliens in 1950 the

1236
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:19,430
Adamski and Williamson would not come

1237
00:53:23,140 --> 00:53:20,810
forward until a couple days after the

1238
00:53:24,430 --> 00:53:23,150
detonation of a hydrogen bomb Betty and

1239
00:53:25,180 --> 00:53:24,440
Barney Hill would not become public for

1240
00:53:26,800 --> 00:53:25,190
mid-60s

1241
00:53:29,170 --> 00:53:26,810
nobody said they're talking to aliens in

1242
00:53:30,760 --> 00:53:29,180
public at least and so therefore how did

1243
00:53:32,020 --> 00:53:30,770
they know that mental phenomena was

1244
00:53:33,880 --> 00:53:32,030
involved because they had a live alien

1245
00:53:35,530 --> 00:53:33,890
and they knew that the alien talked is

1246
00:53:37,360 --> 00:53:35,540
telepathic and gets in your head and

1247
00:53:40,360 --> 00:53:37,370
they went wow man if we could discover

1248
00:53:42,370 --> 00:53:40,370
how this worked and now I don't know

1249
00:53:47,890 --> 00:53:42,380
you're a New Yorker and you talk fast

1250
00:53:54,010 --> 00:53:47,900
but no one talks as fast and he's had in

1251
00:53:56,200 --> 00:53:54,020
Winnipeg Manitoba how does he do that we

1252
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:56,210
don't we don't quite get that Graham's

1253
00:53:59,860 --> 00:53:58,160
great well I just want to give grant

1254
00:54:01,960 --> 00:53:59,870
credit because as far as I know he is

1255
00:54:03,670 --> 00:54:01,970
the first person really to key in on the

1256
00:54:06,840 --> 00:54:03,680
significance of that phrase mental

1257
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:06,850
phenomena in the Wilbert Smithsonian

1258
00:54:12,610 --> 00:54:10,090
Department of Transport way back in 1950

1259
00:54:14,110 --> 00:54:12,620
you know we looked at other people have

1260
00:54:16,780 --> 00:54:14,120
looked at other parts of that memo for

1261
00:54:18,880 --> 00:54:16,790
years yeah the subjects more important

1262
00:54:23,640 --> 00:54:18,890
than the h-bomb and so forth but grant

1263
00:54:27,370 --> 00:54:23,650
grant keyed in below that where this

1264
00:54:28,720 --> 00:54:27,380
aspect of mental phenomena was was very

1265
00:54:31,570 --> 00:54:28,730
considered very important by the US

1266
00:54:33,850 --> 00:54:31,580
government and he uses that to catapult

1267
00:54:35,830 --> 00:54:33,860
us into a whole bunch of stuff that

1268
00:54:40,030 --> 00:54:35,840
jumps us right into the middle of this

1269
00:54:42,250 --> 00:54:40,040
good et bad et you know Richard my my

1270
00:54:44,260 --> 00:54:42,260
approach to this whole thing the whole

1271
00:54:45,710 --> 00:54:44,270
skeptical approach has been from

1272
00:54:47,410 --> 00:54:45,720
consciousness

1273
00:54:50,270 --> 00:54:47,420
that's what I was interested in

1274
00:54:51,740 --> 00:54:50,280
answering for myself you know who are we

1275
00:54:53,180 --> 00:54:51,750
why are we here well let's look at what

1276
00:54:56,060 --> 00:54:53,190
people are saying about consciousness

1277
00:54:57,800 --> 00:54:56,070
let's look at near-death experience

1278
00:55:00,080 --> 00:54:57,810
let's look at out-of-body experience

1279
00:55:01,849 --> 00:55:00,090
after death communication parapsychology

1280
00:55:03,740 --> 00:55:01,859
you know you look at the first 200

1281
00:55:06,290 --> 00:55:03,750
interviews I did that's what Dean Radin

1282
00:55:09,380 --> 00:55:06,300
Rupert Sheldrake parapsychology people

1283
00:55:13,010 --> 00:55:09,390
dr. Julie Daschle so it was interesting

1284
00:55:15,950 --> 00:55:13,020
when I met grant and Saint Dan I I think

1285
00:55:18,589 --> 00:55:15,960
I was influential to grant and saying do

1286
00:55:22,130 --> 00:55:18,599
you understand how consciousness how we

1287
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:22,140
are how we are being part of the

1288
00:55:27,800 --> 00:55:25,170
conspiracy is this idea that science

1289
00:55:29,930 --> 00:55:27,810
continues to tell us for biological

1290
00:55:33,890 --> 00:55:29,940
robots in a meaningless universe while

1291
00:55:36,280 --> 00:55:33,900
at the same time acting like we're just

1292
00:55:39,320 --> 00:55:36,290
saying in the kind of secret but legal

1293
00:55:40,609 --> 00:55:39,330
illegalities a they're doing Stargate

1294
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:40,619
they're doing men who stare at goats

1295
00:55:45,280 --> 00:55:43,290
they're way beyond consciousness is an

1296
00:55:48,950 --> 00:55:45,290
illusion is an epiphenomena of the brain

1297
00:55:50,630 --> 00:55:48,960
and then grant like you said puts in the

1298
00:55:52,670 --> 00:55:50,640
missing puzzle piece and goes yeah

1299
00:55:54,490 --> 00:55:52,680
that's because in the 1950s they knew it

1300
00:55:57,349 --> 00:55:54,500
and then that makes us rethink the whole

1301
00:56:00,020 --> 00:55:57,359
MK ULTRA thing and what our orientation

1302
00:56:03,170 --> 00:56:00,030
is to evil because there's clearly evil

1303
00:56:06,530 --> 00:56:03,180
in MK ULTRA where we're trying to white

1304
00:56:11,079 --> 00:56:06,540
people's minds clean and reprogram them

1305
00:56:16,760 --> 00:56:11,089
and all this other stuff so jump us into

1306
00:56:19,280 --> 00:56:16,770
what has been your I guess process of

1307
00:56:21,170 --> 00:56:19,290
getting into these deeper questions and

1308
00:56:24,530 --> 00:56:21,180
because it also gets into spirituality

1309
00:56:26,510 --> 00:56:24,540
very very quickly and as as I already

1310
00:56:28,550 --> 00:56:26,520
hinted that and you jumped in both feet

1311
00:56:30,530 --> 00:56:28,560
with Chris Bledsoe so there I've laid

1312
00:56:32,359 --> 00:56:30,540
like 50,000 things unless let's do it so

1313
00:56:33,980 --> 00:56:32,369
I'm I am and by the way I don't know

1314
00:56:36,109 --> 00:56:33,990
what time limit you have but I I'm

1315
00:56:38,630 --> 00:56:36,119
really enjoying this so I'll go as long

1316
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:38,640
as you want to go I'm having a great

1317
00:56:43,070 --> 00:56:41,010
time here I will start by telling a

1318
00:56:45,500 --> 00:56:43,080
story that I have told once in a while

1319
00:56:47,599 --> 00:56:45,510
but not that often and for me it was a

1320
00:56:50,290 --> 00:56:47,609
defining moment in my life I was I think

1321
00:56:52,280 --> 00:56:50,300
20 or 21 years old at the time

1322
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:52,290
and you know I've always thought about

1323
00:56:56,690 --> 00:56:54,000
these types of issues of free will and

1324
00:56:57,840 --> 00:56:56,700
determinism and spirituality and I think

1325
00:56:59,910 --> 00:56:57,850
a lot of people have

1326
00:57:01,440 --> 00:56:59,920
who's always thought about it and I went

1327
00:57:04,920 --> 00:57:01,450
through a very strong period where I was

1328
00:57:08,250 --> 00:57:04,930
I guess I was an atheist I was 19 20

1329
00:57:11,550 --> 00:57:08,260
years old and I had my reasons all laid

1330
00:57:13,260 --> 00:57:11,560
out as to why I did not believe in any

1331
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:13,270
kind of transcendental reality I thought

1332
00:57:18,060 --> 00:57:15,850
that was all based on wish fulfillment I

1333
00:57:20,220 --> 00:57:18,070
just started reading Freud I remembered

1334
00:57:22,140 --> 00:57:20,230
and a lot of other philosophers and

1335
00:57:24,900 --> 00:57:22,150
existentialist you know how it is and I

1336
00:57:26,400 --> 00:57:24,910
thought well that's all just you know we

1337
00:57:28,710 --> 00:57:26,410
believe in an afterlife because were

1338
00:57:31,140 --> 00:57:28,720
afraid of death and and we don't want to

1339
00:57:35,730 --> 00:57:31,150
come to terms so and then I I had a dog

1340
00:57:37,920 --> 00:57:35,740
and I was feeding my dog I can see this

1341
00:57:39,390 --> 00:57:37,930
in my mind even now so I've got a can of

1342
00:57:40,950 --> 00:57:39,400
dog food out and I'm opening up the can

1343
00:57:43,230 --> 00:57:40,960
and he knows exactly what I'm doing he's

1344
00:57:45,690 --> 00:57:43,240
watching me he's excited and cuz he

1345
00:57:47,340 --> 00:57:45,700
knows that I'm about to feed him and and

1346
00:57:48,270 --> 00:57:47,350
I'm observing him as he's eating and I'm

1347
00:57:49,950 --> 00:57:48,280
thinking at least a very intelligent

1348
00:57:52,970 --> 00:57:49,960
creature like he knows me he knew that

1349
00:57:55,590 --> 00:57:52,980
there was that can represented dog food

1350
00:57:57,000 --> 00:57:55,600
and plus I knew like he was aware of

1351
00:58:00,510 --> 00:57:57,010
many things that I wasn't aware of like

1352
00:58:01,830 --> 00:58:00,520
smells sounds but I thought here's

1353
00:58:04,380 --> 00:58:01,840
something he doesn't know he doesn't

1354
00:58:06,450 --> 00:58:04,390
know how the food got into that cam like

1355
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:06,460
he'll never he'll never grasp that

1356
00:58:12,120 --> 00:58:09,490
because dog brain like it just doesn't

1357
00:58:13,620 --> 00:58:12,130
work like that he doesn't know what the

1358
00:58:14,820 --> 00:58:13,630
stars are if he looks up at them he

1359
00:58:16,140 --> 00:58:14,830
doesn't know what the moon is he didn't

1360
00:58:17,940 --> 00:58:16,150
know that he's been taken out of his

1361
00:58:20,550 --> 00:58:17,950
natural environment and all these other

1362
00:58:23,040 --> 00:58:20,560
things and I'll G Richard you're so damn

1363
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:23,050
smart so your dogs at this level you're

1364
00:58:27,660 --> 00:58:25,810
at this level what's here

1365
00:58:29,750 --> 00:58:27,670
what's there what's there what's there

1366
00:58:35,580 --> 00:58:29,760
and and it suddenly occurred to me that

1367
00:58:38,120 --> 00:58:35,590
my insistence on this complete like no

1368
00:58:42,090 --> 00:58:38,130
transcendental reality or that how

1369
00:58:43,950 --> 00:58:42,100
ridiculously arrogant for me to say that

1370
00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:43,960
and then of course as you go through

1371
00:58:47,220 --> 00:58:45,970
life and you realize you go back and you

1372
00:58:48,420 --> 00:58:47,230
look at people in the past and

1373
00:58:51,150 --> 00:58:48,430
everyone's always believed that they had

1374
00:58:53,490 --> 00:58:51,160
all figured out like everyone go back to

1375
00:58:55,140 --> 00:58:53,500
ancient Egypt 5,000 years ago talk to an

1376
00:58:57,330 --> 00:58:55,150
Egyptian peasant living on the Nile and

1377
00:58:59,340 --> 00:58:57,340
he'd tell you yeah when that Sun thing

1378
00:59:00,870 --> 00:58:59,350
goes down that's the god raw and he goes

1379
00:59:02,580 --> 00:59:00,880
below the disk of the earth it's shaped

1380
00:59:04,140 --> 00:59:02,590
like a coin and he's gonna be battling

1381
00:59:05,700 --> 00:59:04,150
the demons of the underworld you better

1382
00:59:07,740 --> 00:59:05,710
hope he wins because if he doesn't the

1383
00:59:09,690 --> 00:59:07,750
world will laugh like that's what they

1384
00:59:11,470 --> 00:59:09,700
believed we could look back and think

1385
00:59:13,300 --> 00:59:11,480
well that's really

1386
00:59:16,710 --> 00:59:13,310
but we now believe we've got our all

1387
00:59:20,020 --> 00:59:16,720
figured out like clearly we don't and

1388
00:59:22,000 --> 00:59:20,030
more fundamentally our brains themselves

1389
00:59:26,590 --> 00:59:22,010
are the limitation like our brains are

1390
00:59:28,510 --> 00:59:26,600
amazing they can allow us to engage in

1391
00:59:30,550 --> 00:59:28,520
all kinds of incredible ideas and

1392
00:59:33,460 --> 00:59:30,560
realities but they have their limits and

1393
00:59:36,430 --> 00:59:33,470
in fact we understand some the limits

1394
00:59:38,890 --> 00:59:36,440
are we organize reality spatially and

1395
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:38,900
temporally do space and time actually

1396
00:59:44,380 --> 00:59:41,450
exist the way that our minds tell us

1397
00:59:46,890 --> 00:59:44,390
well even guys like a manual can't 200

1398
00:59:49,060 --> 00:59:46,900
plus years ago said nope not really and

1399
00:59:51,670 --> 00:59:49,070
Einstein and others kind of confirmed

1400
00:59:54,550 --> 00:59:51,680
that so we know that our brains organize

1401
00:59:57,580 --> 00:59:54,560
reality so with that said I look at

1402
00:59:59,350 --> 00:59:57,590
anomalies in our world today as you I

1403
01:00:01,660 --> 00:59:59,360
think you know I published a couple of

1404
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:01,670
books by Mike Cleland the a little guy

1405
01:00:07,870 --> 01:00:05,690
and Mike Mike's amazing his work to me

1406
01:00:10,240 --> 01:00:07,880
Mike is the true heir to people like

1407
01:00:14,350 --> 01:00:10,250
Jack velay and John keel in terms of

1408
01:00:16,690 --> 01:00:14,360
looking at this synchronistic world that

1409
01:00:19,630 --> 01:00:16,700
we live in with this meta intelligence

1410
01:00:21,820 --> 01:00:19,640
that really does seem at times to be

1411
01:00:23,740 --> 01:00:21,830
guiding us like we're each characters in

1412
01:00:25,720 --> 01:00:23,750
a video game it's like someone out there

1413
01:00:28,330 --> 01:00:25,730
saying yeah I've got I have Alex Sybaris

1414
01:00:30,550 --> 01:00:28,340
for a couple of years I'll have Dolan

1415
01:00:32,470 --> 01:00:30,560
let's have them do an interview in early

1416
01:00:36,280 --> 01:00:32,480
2020 ok cools put that on the calendar

1417
01:00:39,180 --> 01:00:36,290
like ice I whimsically wonder if things

1418
01:00:42,550 --> 01:00:39,190
like this because there are very bizarre

1419
01:00:43,840 --> 01:00:42,560
very bizarre anomalies and

1420
01:00:45,670 --> 01:00:43,850
synchronicities that happen in this

1421
01:00:47,740 --> 01:00:45,680
world and I don't pretend that I know

1422
01:00:52,020 --> 01:00:47,750
what it is but here's what I why I'm

1423
01:00:56,320 --> 01:00:52,030
getting into this because consciousness

1424
01:00:59,590 --> 01:00:56,330
clearly is important in some fundamental

1425
01:01:01,900 --> 01:00:59,600
way to this nature of our reality there

1426
01:01:04,120 --> 01:01:01,910
is no question in my mind anymore we've

1427
01:01:06,460 --> 01:01:04,130
done enough genuine scientific

1428
01:01:11,200 --> 01:01:06,470
experimentation that can support that

1429
01:01:16,780 --> 01:01:11,210
and and secondly we have in an enormous

1430
01:01:18,160 --> 01:01:16,790
hole in our general understanding of

1431
01:01:20,980 --> 01:01:18,170
reality itself like there's things we

1432
01:01:24,890 --> 01:01:20,990
don't get and so in that hole are things

1433
01:01:26,809 --> 01:01:24,900
like UFOs in that hole are things like

1434
01:01:30,620 --> 01:01:26,819
you know synchronicities and

1435
01:01:32,989 --> 01:01:30,630
spirituality and maybe even like you

1436
01:01:36,019 --> 01:01:32,999
know definitely like psychic phenomena

1437
01:01:39,559 --> 01:01:36,029
psy phenomenon absolutely fit in there

1438
01:01:41,239 --> 01:01:39,569
so we don't get it yet and I'm hopeful

1439
01:01:44,239 --> 01:01:41,249
that we might one day have a better

1440
01:01:46,789 --> 01:01:44,249
understanding of it I don't consider it

1441
01:01:48,109 --> 01:01:46,799
paranormal I consider it I consider

1442
01:01:50,170 --> 01:01:48,119
those things normal but we don't have a

1443
01:01:53,509 --> 01:01:50,180
full understanding of it so back to

1444
01:01:55,910 --> 01:01:53,519
grant and his whole focus on everything

1445
01:02:00,229 --> 01:01:55,920
is consciousness well you know what

1446
01:02:02,930 --> 01:02:00,239
maybe I was gonna say why don't we throw

1447
01:02:06,910 --> 01:02:02,940
I was doing a little out of order but

1448
01:02:10,519 --> 01:02:06,920
let's throw Chris Bledsoe on the pod

1449
01:02:12,979 --> 01:02:10,529
fantastic again folks you got to listen

1450
01:02:17,390 --> 01:02:12,989
to these series of interviews but before

1451
01:02:19,489 --> 01:02:17,400
we do do you want to just intro Chris a

1452
01:02:22,190 --> 01:02:19,499
little short and tell people you know

1453
01:02:24,259 --> 01:02:22,200
who he is a little bit of the backstory

1454
01:02:26,299 --> 01:02:24,269
a little bit of the story of this

1455
01:02:28,279 --> 01:02:26,309
four-part interview series you did and

1456
01:02:30,229 --> 01:02:28,289
then you gotta play the clip that really

1457
01:02:33,650 --> 01:02:30,239
gets to the point of Angel because I

1458
01:02:35,900 --> 01:02:33,660
want to hone in on this good et baddie T

1459
01:02:39,170 --> 01:02:35,910
and get to the really big stuff I mean

1460
01:02:40,849 --> 01:02:39,180
is this God but first who is Chris

1461
01:02:43,099 --> 01:02:40,859
Bledsoe and what did you do in this

1462
01:02:44,959 --> 01:02:43,109
interview series Chris we may do a fifth

1463
01:02:47,089 --> 01:02:44,969
part by the way I'm hopeful that we'll

1464
01:02:47,690 --> 01:02:47,099
do that but Chris lives in North

1465
01:02:51,499 --> 01:02:47,700
Carolina

1466
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:51,509
he's guy who built built homes for

1467
01:03:00,259 --> 01:02:55,410
living as a nice big family lots of kids

1468
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:00,269
and had he's had a near-death experience

1469
01:03:08,079 --> 01:03:03,690
as a child which I think was significant

1470
01:03:12,259 --> 01:03:08,089
but essentially as an adult starting in

1471
01:03:15,140 --> 01:03:12,269
2007 had a remarkable UFO encounter with

1472
01:03:18,349 --> 01:03:15,150
his son and three other men while they

1473
01:03:24,229 --> 01:03:18,359
were fishing and in the aftermath of

1474
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:24,239
that had has had a series of other very

1475
01:03:27,319 --> 01:03:25,650
very incredible encounters I mean the

1476
01:03:29,380 --> 01:03:27,329
thing about his case that makes it so

1477
01:03:32,250 --> 01:03:29,390
difficult is

1478
01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:32,260
the stories seem really fantastic too

1479
01:03:36,880 --> 01:03:35,050
particularly a modern temperament like

1480
01:03:39,580 --> 01:03:36,890
encounters with what appears to be like

1481
01:03:43,870 --> 01:03:39,590
an angelic being multiple times and

1482
01:03:45,310 --> 01:03:43,880
balls of light and like and he is

1483
01:03:48,040 --> 01:03:45,320
convinced by the way that these are very

1484
01:03:51,430 --> 01:03:48,050
benevolent beings and he's had them

1485
01:03:57,880 --> 01:03:51,440
repeatedly but what what makes his story

1486
01:04:01,150 --> 01:03:57,890
hard to dismiss for me is a the the man

1487
01:04:03,610 --> 01:04:01,160
himself which I realize is not a very

1488
01:04:05,590 --> 01:04:03,620
good source of proof like I really like

1489
01:04:08,380 --> 01:04:05,600
him and I trust him but on top of that

1490
01:04:10,720 --> 01:04:08,390
he's had a lot of corroboration from

1491
01:04:13,240 --> 01:04:10,730
other individuals who have been around

1492
01:04:14,980 --> 01:04:13,250
him when things have gotten crazy that

1493
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:14,990
includes Grant Cameron that includes

1494
01:04:18,970 --> 01:04:16,730
chase Colette ski that includes John

1495
01:04:21,850 --> 01:04:18,980
Alexander and I'm sure there are other

1496
01:04:23,800 --> 01:04:21,860
people as well oh yeah oh yes well

1497
01:04:26,110 --> 01:04:23,810
that's they're very close and in here

1498
01:04:29,380 --> 01:04:26,120
very close as as is revealed in your

1499
01:04:31,630 --> 01:04:29,390
interview series he is the real deal in

1500
01:04:36,340 --> 01:04:31,640
terms of you know you were talking about

1501
01:04:39,160 --> 01:04:36,350
a tip and paying being a case that the

1502
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:39,170
United States government was very very

1503
01:04:45,010 --> 01:04:42,650
interested in they were on it MUFON was

1504
01:04:46,540 --> 01:04:45,020
on it did a real head trip and have to

1505
01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:46,550
wonder about some kind of covert

1506
01:04:52,480 --> 01:04:49,760
activity again all this is spelled out

1507
01:04:54,100 --> 01:04:52,490
in the interview because I can even see

1508
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:54,110
your kind of trepidation and talking

1509
01:04:57,910 --> 01:04:55,910
about the angel stuff but that makes it

1510
01:05:00,190 --> 01:04:57,920
even more significant that Dolan was

1511
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:00,200
able was willing to go there so without

1512
01:05:06,880 --> 01:05:02,450
further ado let me play the angel clip

1513
01:05:08,530 --> 01:05:06,890
let's talk about good et bad et and the

1514
01:05:11,770 --> 01:05:08,540
church don't want to believe it they

1515
01:05:15,010 --> 01:05:11,780
think it's demonic the Madonna of the

1516
01:05:18,130 --> 01:05:15,020
world rejected it because of these

1517
01:05:21,490 --> 01:05:18,140
individuals that were controlling the

1518
01:05:24,970 --> 01:05:21,500
thing and here I'm stuck and I've got

1519
01:05:27,340 --> 01:05:24,980
these entities telling me you've got to

1520
01:05:29,560 --> 01:05:27,350
tell your story you got to tell your

1521
01:05:31,720 --> 01:05:29,570
story they tell what you know and I told

1522
01:05:34,060 --> 01:05:31,730
month on I believed there were angels I

1523
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:34,070
just put it right out there and to do

1524
01:05:38,490 --> 01:05:36,530
today I'm pretty sure that's what we're

1525
01:05:42,110 --> 01:05:38,500
experiencing maybe I'm wrong

1526
01:05:45,630 --> 01:05:42,120
but I don't think so okay there it is

1527
01:05:47,640 --> 01:05:45,640
there it is indeed and again I just

1528
01:05:49,560 --> 01:05:47,650
realized this opportunity to say the

1529
01:05:53,370 --> 01:05:49,570
same thing over and over again listen to

1530
01:05:56,550 --> 01:05:53,380
Richards for parts this is a UFO case of

1531
01:05:59,640 --> 01:05:56,560
the first order you know has multiple

1532
01:06:01,800 --> 01:05:59,650
eyewitnesses reported consistent with

1533
01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:01,810
all the other not all the other but with

1534
01:06:06,570 --> 01:06:04,090
many other UFO cases this isn't a

1535
01:06:08,760 --> 01:06:06,580
one-off kind of thing and then he drops

1536
01:06:11,310 --> 01:06:08,770
the angel bomb on us which we've heard

1537
01:06:14,460 --> 01:06:11,320
in various ways that hey we're really

1538
01:06:16,380 --> 01:06:14,470
talking about God here in some way or

1539
01:06:19,890 --> 01:06:16,390
something close to her associated with

1540
01:06:22,110 --> 01:06:19,900
what we honor most is spirituality what

1541
01:06:25,470 --> 01:06:22,120
do you think Richard it's it's amazing

1542
01:06:27,360 --> 01:06:25,480
having talked with him and I'll just

1543
01:06:32,340 --> 01:06:27,370
point out if those four interviews I I

1544
01:06:35,370 --> 01:06:32,350
felt that I really I told Chris I said I

1545
01:06:38,040 --> 01:06:35,380
want to I want to get this story out

1546
01:06:41,160 --> 01:06:38,050
logically and thoroughly and you have to

1547
01:06:42,870 --> 01:06:41,170
allow me to ask you questions that are

1548
01:06:44,580 --> 01:06:42,880
going to challenge you but I want to

1549
01:06:47,700 --> 01:06:44,590
give you ultimate ly the opportunity to

1550
01:06:50,190 --> 01:06:47,710
tell your story and we developed a very

1551
01:06:51,870 --> 01:06:50,200
I think a very gentle rapport back and

1552
01:06:52,350 --> 01:06:51,880
forth and so I was very pleased about

1553
01:06:58,440 --> 01:06:52,360
that

1554
01:07:00,450 --> 01:06:58,450
in terms of his his account of things he

1555
01:07:03,960 --> 01:07:00,460
challenges me to be perfectly honest

1556
01:07:06,510 --> 01:07:03,970
like my instinct is to I don't like

1557
01:07:09,840 --> 01:07:06,520
these types of cases my instinct says I

1558
01:07:11,610 --> 01:07:09,850
want I want a material physical nuts and

1559
01:07:15,900 --> 01:07:11,620
bolts gays to deal with I'm not gonna

1560
01:07:17,490 --> 01:07:15,910
lie like what I got into 25 years ago is

1561
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:17,500
this idea that there's a physical

1562
01:07:22,530 --> 01:07:20,050
phenomenon this out there that there are

1563
01:07:24,690 --> 01:07:22,540
very likely beings of some sort that are

1564
01:07:26,400 --> 01:07:24,700
running it out they don't seem to be us

1565
01:07:29,730 --> 01:07:26,410
they're probably physical maybe they've

1566
01:07:31,350 --> 01:07:29,740
got magical type technology that makes

1567
01:07:34,020 --> 01:07:31,360
them seem spiritual like this is how I

1568
01:07:36,840 --> 01:07:34,030
would think it through and as time has

1569
01:07:39,150 --> 01:07:36,850
gone by that has been challenged and

1570
01:07:41,440 --> 01:07:39,160
Chris without doubt it's challenged it

1571
01:07:43,810 --> 01:07:41,450
very very strongly for me so

1572
01:07:46,150 --> 01:07:43,820
um you know I'm at the point now in my

1573
01:07:49,870 --> 01:07:46,160
life I'm almost 60 which is shocks me

1574
01:07:51,490 --> 01:07:49,880
I'm 57 and well a lot of waters gone

1575
01:07:53,740 --> 01:07:51,500
under the bridge in the years that I've

1576
01:07:58,230 --> 01:07:53,750
done this and I would say I'm at a point

1577
01:08:02,950 --> 01:07:58,240
in my life where I actually do believe

1578
01:08:07,359 --> 01:08:02,960
in a dimension of reality beyond this

1579
01:08:08,950 --> 01:08:07,369
physical realm that we live in and I'll

1580
01:08:11,380 --> 01:08:08,960
tell I'll share a story that I have

1581
01:08:12,790 --> 01:08:11,390
actually I've told on my website on the

1582
01:08:15,069 --> 01:08:12,800
members site but I've not said this

1583
01:08:18,220 --> 01:08:15,079
publicly and I'm happy to say it here my

1584
01:08:21,670 --> 01:08:18,230
father died just over a year ago he was

1585
01:08:27,039 --> 01:08:21,680
a month before he turned 80 in December

1586
01:08:30,190 --> 01:08:27,049
of 2018 right he and I were quite close

1587
01:08:33,130 --> 01:08:30,200
his name was also Richard and I mean I

1588
01:08:34,360 --> 01:08:33,140
had very kind of tight relationship with

1589
01:08:38,019 --> 01:08:34,370
him his whole life he was a retired New

1590
01:08:41,140 --> 01:08:38,029
York City cop worked at the World Trade

1591
01:08:43,539 --> 01:08:41,150
Center and had September 11th off that

1592
01:08:45,820 --> 01:08:43,549
day many other things many shared his

1593
01:08:48,130 --> 01:08:45,830
job with was killed that day but my dad

1594
01:08:52,479 --> 01:08:48,140
and I were always close and he died on

1595
01:08:53,829 --> 01:08:52,489
December 2nd of 2018 living about a

1596
01:08:55,420 --> 01:08:53,839
hundred and fifty miles away from me

1597
01:08:59,559 --> 01:08:55,430
I've spoken with him on the phone

1598
01:09:01,209 --> 01:08:59,569
earlier that day and I didn't expect he

1599
01:09:04,860 --> 01:09:01,219
was in the hospital he was not feeling

1600
01:09:09,490 --> 01:09:04,870
well but no one thought he was gonna die

1601
01:09:10,780 --> 01:09:09,500
and then in that evening in around 8:20

1602
01:09:13,660 --> 01:09:10,790
in the evening I was sitting on the

1603
01:09:18,039 --> 01:09:13,670
couch next to Tracy we were both working

1604
01:09:20,470 --> 01:09:18,049
on our laptops and I had just had two

1605
01:09:22,599 --> 01:09:20,480
little ceiling lights installed like a

1606
01:09:24,999 --> 01:09:22,609
few months earlier in my living room and

1607
01:09:27,280 --> 01:09:25,009
they were on a dimmer setting a dim

1608
01:09:28,390 --> 01:09:27,290
setting and Tracy noticed at first she

1609
01:09:30,789 --> 01:09:28,400
looked up because look at those lights

1610
01:09:34,720 --> 01:09:30,799
are going crazy they're going bright dim

1611
01:09:36,849 --> 01:09:34,730
bright dim bright dim bright dim and me

1612
01:09:39,010 --> 01:09:36,859
I you know I got it all worked out my

1613
01:09:41,979 --> 01:09:39,020
god stupid lights what's going on with

1614
01:09:44,920 --> 01:09:41,989
ASA and I get up and I'm staring at the

1615
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:44,930
lights and I'm watching them freaking

1616
01:09:50,289 --> 01:09:46,850
like these lights is freaking out I'm

1617
01:09:52,519 --> 01:09:50,299
thinking I got I got that wiring myself

1618
01:09:54,169 --> 01:09:52,529
I got know exactly what it was I had a

1619
01:09:55,609 --> 01:09:54,179
Isis contractor would install them I

1620
01:10:00,439 --> 01:09:55,619
watched him go in they were rock-solid

1621
01:10:01,970 --> 01:10:00,449
and I turned the light on and off a few

1622
01:10:04,430 --> 01:10:01,980
times and jammed to switch up and down

1623
01:10:06,709 --> 01:10:04,440
the dimmer setting and that stopped it

1624
01:10:08,359 --> 01:10:06,719
15 minutes later my sister called me to

1625
01:10:10,790 --> 01:10:08,369
tell me that her dad had died 15 minutes

1626
01:10:13,189 --> 01:10:10,800
earlier and and I think about that and

1627
01:10:15,799 --> 01:10:13,199
like all right so that just a

1628
01:10:17,540 --> 01:10:15,809
coincidence so some of you are really

1629
01:10:19,609 --> 01:10:17,550
skeptical guests who've been on here in

1630
01:10:20,720 --> 01:10:19,619
the past or say just a coincidence but

1631
01:10:23,209 --> 01:10:20,730
how many times you have to have a

1632
01:10:26,240 --> 01:10:23,219
coincidence like that to think something

1633
01:10:28,580 --> 01:10:26,250
happened here now what really got me

1634
01:10:30,500 --> 01:10:28,590
thinking was how the hell would my

1635
01:10:33,020 --> 01:10:30,510
father have done that would he have

1636
01:10:34,609 --> 01:10:33,030
flown instantly 150 miles over the New

1637
01:10:36,859 --> 01:10:34,619
York State Thruway gotten into the

1638
01:10:38,750 --> 01:10:36,869
wiring of my home and shouted hey Reggie

1639
01:10:42,580 --> 01:10:38,760
take a look at this like is that what he

1640
01:10:45,589 --> 01:10:42,590
was doing or how did he arrive and no

1641
01:10:47,479 --> 01:10:45,599
like if you want to go down this road to

1642
01:10:49,700 --> 01:10:47,489
go to those lights which had just been

1643
01:10:52,189 --> 01:10:49,710
installed and which were on a dim

1644
01:10:53,330 --> 01:10:52,199
setting and to play with them like how

1645
01:10:54,680 --> 01:10:53,340
does that whole thing work like I don't

1646
01:10:57,799 --> 01:10:54,690
know how that works

1647
01:11:00,410 --> 01:10:57,809
but but there's something in our physics

1648
01:11:03,410 --> 01:11:00,420
and yes I'm gonna just say I choose to

1649
01:11:05,299 --> 01:11:03,420
believe that somehow the my father's

1650
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:05,309
death and that light phenomena are

1651
01:11:10,250 --> 01:11:07,770
related I don't know how it's related I

1652
01:11:14,750 --> 01:11:10,260
don't know who did that or what that was

1653
01:11:17,540 --> 01:11:14,760
but that tells me or it hints to me

1654
01:11:20,810 --> 01:11:17,550
that's just one more example of our

1655
01:11:24,379 --> 01:11:20,820
world giving us these hints that there's

1656
01:11:27,589 --> 01:11:24,389
something much bigger going on here and

1657
01:11:29,540 --> 01:11:27,599
and I'm with grant in the sense that and

1658
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:29,550
I'm with Chris Bledsoe in the sense that

1659
01:11:35,600 --> 01:11:31,730
I don't think that it's all negative but

1660
01:11:37,520 --> 01:11:35,610
I'm not with I don't know I don't know

1661
01:11:39,500 --> 01:11:37,530
where grant stands on this actually but

1662
01:11:41,899 --> 01:11:39,510
I wouldn't be with him if he were to say

1663
01:11:42,169 --> 01:11:41,909
it's all positive like I don't believe

1664
01:11:43,760 --> 01:11:42,179
that

1665
01:11:45,919 --> 01:11:43,770
I mean Steven Greer would say it's all

1666
01:11:49,520 --> 01:11:45,929
positive - and I strongly disagree with

1667
01:11:51,589 --> 01:11:49,530
that I think that's just foolish so I

1668
01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:51,599
think that's almost to me the third

1669
01:11:55,069 --> 01:11:53,400
dimension of it because I want to recap

1670
01:11:58,399 --> 01:11:55,079
what you talked about which I find so

1671
01:12:00,950 --> 01:11:58,409
intriguing the first dimension isn't the

1672
01:12:03,830 --> 01:12:00,960
proper word forgive me but the first

1673
01:12:05,989 --> 01:12:03,840
question that pops to mind is what is

1674
01:12:07,939 --> 01:12:05,999
the interface with our physical reality

1675
01:12:09,919 --> 01:12:07,949
yeah cuz we're interested in that we

1676
01:12:12,140 --> 01:12:09,929
have this kind of curious engineering

1677
01:12:15,259 --> 01:12:12,150
mind how did he make the lights shift

1678
01:12:18,799 --> 01:12:15,269
like right exactly and the second I

1679
01:12:22,540 --> 01:12:18,809
think a question that pops up is what is

1680
01:12:24,859 --> 01:12:22,550
the technology of the consciousness

1681
01:12:26,120 --> 01:12:24,869
interface and I think that's

1682
01:12:28,430 --> 01:12:26,130
particularly interesting because when we

1683
01:12:30,859 --> 01:12:28,440
look at ET and we start looking at the

1684
01:12:32,750 --> 01:12:30,869
cases there's clearly as Grant pointed

1685
01:12:35,270 --> 01:12:32,760
out in that clip we played from the

1686
01:12:37,219 --> 01:12:35,280
1950s we understood there's mental

1687
01:12:38,870 --> 01:12:37,229
telepathy is the means of communication

1688
01:12:41,930 --> 01:12:38,880
we've a little [\h__\h] we don't how to do

1689
01:12:44,540 --> 01:12:41,940
that but apparently they do and they

1690
01:12:46,370 --> 01:12:44,550
have it like a app on their iPhone so

1691
01:12:48,469 --> 01:12:46,380
there's a technology component to

1692
01:12:50,810 --> 01:12:48,479
consciousness that we just totally don't

1693
01:12:53,299 --> 01:12:50,820
get and it also relates this time-space

1694
01:12:55,549 --> 01:12:53,309
thing that we don't get but then the

1695
01:12:57,560 --> 01:12:55,559
third dimension of it which you just

1696
01:12:59,779 --> 01:12:57,570
just touched on it and I think is so

1697
01:13:02,120 --> 01:12:59,789
fascinating and I really want to get to

1698
01:13:04,910 --> 01:13:02,130
it because it gets to the heart of the

1699
01:13:08,719 --> 01:13:04,920
video that you did with Tracy and that's

1700
01:13:11,450 --> 01:13:08,729
the good versus evil but moral

1701
01:13:13,580 --> 01:13:11,460
imperative it's so challenging because

1702
01:13:15,080 --> 01:13:13,590
we've all gone through you know you said

1703
01:13:16,729 --> 01:13:15,090
you went through an atheistic phase any

1704
01:13:18,529 --> 01:13:16,739
thinking person doesn't go through an

1705
01:13:22,160 --> 01:13:18,539
atheistic phase because muscles are fed

1706
01:13:24,439 --> 01:13:22,170
with this kind of narrow Christian dogma

1707
01:13:27,140 --> 01:13:24,449
if you get on the ark kind of stuff but

1708
01:13:31,310 --> 01:13:27,150
when we blast past that we're still

1709
01:13:33,830 --> 01:13:31,320
faced with is there good and bad and how

1710
01:13:35,870 --> 01:13:33,840
does that work you talking about grant

1711
01:13:37,939 --> 01:13:35,880
let me play what grant has to say about

1712
01:13:40,600 --> 01:13:37,949
that and then I want to get your take

1713
01:13:43,430 --> 01:13:40,610
and then I'll offer my take on it

1714
01:13:44,689 --> 01:13:43,440
there's good and bad there is a moral

1715
01:13:48,350 --> 01:13:44,699
difference you know take the most

1716
01:13:50,060 --> 01:13:48,360
extreme example the guy who's taking

1717
01:13:51,770 --> 01:13:50,070
little kids and cutting them up and

1718
01:13:54,709 --> 01:13:51,780
selling their body parts and sexually

1719
01:13:57,049 --> 01:13:54,719
molesting them that in my mind is is bad

1720
01:13:59,060 --> 01:13:57,059
it's evil and then there were there's a

1721
01:14:01,189 --> 01:13:59,070
bunch of shades in between and then

1722
01:14:02,479 --> 01:14:01,199
there's some really holy good people

1723
01:14:03,919 --> 01:14:02,489
that I don't know how they do it but

1724
01:14:06,529 --> 01:14:03,929
they keep all their [\h__\h] together and

1725
01:14:08,209 --> 01:14:06,539
they really do it how's your universe is

1726
01:14:10,310 --> 01:14:08,219
there good in bed because some people in

1727
01:14:12,169 --> 01:14:10,320
the consciousness camp say well there's

1728
01:14:14,540 --> 01:14:12,179
really no good and bad it all just kind

1729
01:14:16,040 --> 01:14:14,550
of you know well if you go to the nude

1730
01:14:17,810 --> 01:14:16,050
and stuff no if you get into

1731
01:14:19,629 --> 01:14:17,820
reincarnation it's all experience if you

1732
01:14:21,759 --> 01:14:19,639
is wait the mistake you make is you

1733
01:14:23,500 --> 01:14:21,769
you did it in that sentence you say okay

1734
01:14:25,389 --> 01:14:23,510
this is guys to cut up little people or

1735
01:14:28,359 --> 01:14:25,399
whatever okay and then there's these

1736
01:14:30,580 --> 01:14:28,369
good people who basically have it all

1737
01:14:32,319 --> 01:14:30,590
together and I would go to don't I have

1738
01:14:33,699 --> 01:14:32,329
to quote the Bible but we with the whole

1739
01:14:35,439 --> 01:14:33,709
thing with the prostitute Jesus said

1740
01:14:37,540 --> 01:14:35,449
lead he who's perfect cast the first

1741
01:14:39,459 --> 01:14:37,550
stone all you have you do not have good

1742
01:14:42,040 --> 01:14:39,469
people and bad people you do not have

1743
01:14:44,709 --> 01:14:42,050
good aliens and that is you have it see

1744
01:14:48,699 --> 01:14:44,719
for their good deeds in there there is a

1745
01:14:50,949 --> 01:14:48,709
42 Rey Hernandez it oh shoot I didn't

1746
01:14:52,689 --> 01:14:50,959
mean to cut that off but I did so let's

1747
01:14:53,799 --> 01:14:52,699
just let's just leave it right there I

1748
01:14:56,770 --> 01:14:53,809
do have to give a shout out to my

1749
01:15:00,069 --> 01:14:56,780
friends at Graham Erica who hosted this

1750
01:15:03,129 --> 01:15:00,079
conversation between grant and I but you

1751
01:15:04,089 --> 01:15:03,139
get the gist of it what do you think oh

1752
01:15:06,580 --> 01:15:04,099
man

1753
01:15:09,909 --> 01:15:06,590
you ever read the Grand Inquisitor by

1754
01:15:11,620 --> 01:15:09,919
Dostoyevsky yes I'm aware but I can't

1755
01:15:15,250 --> 01:15:11,630
say that all these classics I just have

1756
01:15:18,909 --> 01:15:15,260
awareness amazing so if two brothers are

1757
01:15:21,009 --> 01:15:18,919
debating one is a pious priest to be and

1758
01:15:23,770 --> 01:15:21,019
one as an atheist intellectual and the

1759
01:15:25,929 --> 01:15:23,780
atheist wrote this story the Grand

1760
01:15:29,169 --> 01:15:25,939
Inquisitor and basically he was talking

1761
01:15:31,509 --> 01:15:29,179
about his his his belief where he says

1762
01:15:33,520 --> 01:15:31,519
look I don't believe in a god I don't

1763
01:15:38,770 --> 01:15:33,530
believe that there's any any salvation

1764
01:15:41,919 --> 01:15:38,780
enough that could justify you know the

1765
01:15:44,259 --> 01:15:41,929
kinds of crimes that of torturing

1766
01:15:45,850 --> 01:15:44,269
children or killing children or abusing

1767
01:15:47,739 --> 01:15:45,860
people in such a horrible way like

1768
01:15:49,839 --> 01:15:47,749
there's no when you take someone who's

1769
01:15:52,779 --> 01:15:49,849
innocent and you do such a horrible

1770
01:15:55,179 --> 01:15:52,789
thing and you're telling me God forgives

1771
01:15:59,669 --> 01:15:55,189
all Ivan the brother says I don't want

1772
01:16:03,159 --> 01:15:59,679
that God I rebel against that God and

1773
01:16:04,959 --> 01:16:03,169
you know grant grants I have never

1774
01:16:06,959 --> 01:16:04,969
resolved this myself I mean honestly I

1775
01:16:09,969 --> 01:16:06,969
can tell you that I've struggled with it

1776
01:16:14,319 --> 01:16:09,979
like I believe in my heart that there's

1777
01:16:16,750 --> 01:16:14,329
good and evil I do and I know evil and I

1778
01:16:20,379 --> 01:16:16,760
see it and I know good when I see it but

1779
01:16:24,909 --> 01:16:20,389
I get grants point here like you know

1780
01:16:27,219 --> 01:16:24,919
our world is a dis little dot it's a

1781
01:16:29,859 --> 01:16:27,229
little dot and when you step back you

1782
01:16:30,610 --> 01:16:29,869
can see there's this grand movement

1783
01:16:33,160 --> 01:16:30,620
happening and

1784
01:16:35,220 --> 01:16:33,170
and when we do terrible things why do we

1785
01:16:38,980 --> 01:16:35,230
do terrible things is it because we

1786
01:16:40,570 --> 01:16:38,990
because you could say maybe we lack we

1787
01:16:42,970 --> 01:16:40,580
lack the knowledge of the greater the

1788
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:42,980
greater good I don't know where I stand

1789
01:16:48,220 --> 01:16:45,650
on that I may be struggling with that

1790
01:16:51,130 --> 01:16:48,230
till the day I die I mean I can see both

1791
01:16:52,930 --> 01:16:51,140
sides of it I think in my daily life

1792
01:16:55,420 --> 01:16:52,940
I'm absolutely one of the people who

1793
01:16:57,040 --> 01:16:55,430
sees good and evil so on a practical

1794
01:16:59,830 --> 01:16:57,050
level there's good and on a practical

1795
01:17:03,280 --> 01:16:59,840
level there's evil I don't know probably

1796
01:17:07,560 --> 01:17:03,290
after evil people is it possible that et

1797
01:17:10,540 --> 01:17:07,570
is representative of that dichotomy in

1798
01:17:14,380 --> 01:17:10,550
individual cases because absolutely you

1799
01:17:17,440 --> 01:17:14,390
know are there bad ETS who are I think

1800
01:17:19,480 --> 01:17:17,450
what when people when people deny this I

1801
01:17:23,740 --> 01:17:19,490
think like what did you just like fall

1802
01:17:26,230 --> 01:17:23,750
off the turnip truck like how how naive

1803
01:17:30,460 --> 01:17:26,240
do you have to be so I command if we

1804
01:17:31,890 --> 01:17:30,470
went back in history 2,000 years two or

1805
01:17:33,760 --> 01:17:31,900
three thousand years like ancient

1806
01:17:36,580 --> 01:17:33,770
ancient Greece

1807
01:17:38,830 --> 01:17:36,590
you know 2,500 years ago and in our nice

1808
01:17:42,760 --> 01:17:38,840
clothing with our little iPhones and our

1809
01:17:46,060 --> 01:17:42,770
technology and our shiny teeth and our

1810
01:17:48,520 --> 01:17:46,070
nice you know whatever we've got and we

1811
01:17:50,260 --> 01:17:48,530
talked to the Greek people there and

1812
01:17:51,970 --> 01:17:50,270
they'd be like wow they've got this [\h__\h]

1813
01:17:53,800 --> 01:17:51,980
together you must have figured all of

1814
01:17:56,500 --> 01:17:53,810
your problems out like you probably

1815
01:17:58,320 --> 01:17:56,510
don't even have any war and we just look

1816
01:18:03,070 --> 01:17:58,330
at each other and like don't say a word

1817
01:18:05,710 --> 01:18:03,080
the fact is advanced technology and

1818
01:18:08,620 --> 01:18:05,720
capabilities clearly we have learned

1819
01:18:10,780 --> 01:18:08,630
does not mean that we are any better or

1820
01:18:12,430 --> 01:18:10,790
different ethically than those people we

1821
01:18:14,650 --> 01:18:12,440
we have change in a lot of ways it's

1822
01:18:17,410 --> 01:18:14,660
true like the overt kind of brutality

1823
01:18:19,390 --> 01:18:17,420
that's gone away we're transforming

1824
01:18:21,730 --> 01:18:19,400
ourselves physiologically and

1825
01:18:22,990 --> 01:18:21,740
evolutionarily because of civilization

1826
01:18:24,160 --> 01:18:23,000
is something I'd love to talk about

1827
01:18:28,450 --> 01:18:24,170
because I think it's affected our

1828
01:18:30,340 --> 01:18:28,460
psychic abilities to the worst but but

1829
01:18:32,740 --> 01:18:30,350
but basically we're still human beings

1830
01:18:34,510 --> 01:18:32,750
we're still aggressive we're supposed to

1831
01:18:36,340 --> 01:18:34,520
be aggressive by the way that's a that's

1832
01:18:38,050 --> 01:18:36,350
a canard that like we're all supposed to

1833
01:18:40,780 --> 01:18:38,060
be peace-loving and all that nonsense

1834
01:18:43,390 --> 01:18:40,790
that's that's stupid in my opinion like

1835
01:18:44,239 --> 01:18:43,400
you have to have aggression if you want

1836
01:18:47,140 --> 01:18:44,249
to survive

1837
01:18:50,029 --> 01:18:47,150
in a world like you have to be able to

1838
01:18:51,739 --> 01:18:50,039
fight you have to be able to defend it

1839
01:18:53,930 --> 01:18:51,749
if nothing else against wild animals you

1840
01:18:57,469 --> 01:18:53,940
know you go you have to be able to do

1841
01:19:00,410 --> 01:18:57,479
that that requires certain qualities

1842
01:19:01,939 --> 01:19:00,420
particularly traditionally in men that

1843
01:19:03,410 --> 01:19:01,949
is testosterone that is aggression

1844
01:19:06,080 --> 01:19:03,420
that's like that's what you do to

1845
01:19:07,250 --> 01:19:06,090
survive and to what we're seeing this is

1846
01:19:08,870 --> 01:19:07,260
I'm getting off track here but we're

1847
01:19:10,939 --> 01:19:08,880
seeing our civilization really siphoning

1848
01:19:12,439 --> 01:19:10,949
those qualities out of men and they're

1849
01:19:16,040 --> 01:19:12,449
siphoning other qualities out of women

1850
01:19:18,950 --> 01:19:16,050
as well but the fact is back to good and

1851
01:19:21,859 --> 01:19:18,960
bad if we were to go back to that

1852
01:19:23,660 --> 01:19:21,869
ancient period those people might be

1853
01:19:25,399 --> 01:19:23,670
fooled into thinking that we've got it

1854
01:19:27,560 --> 01:19:25,409
all figured out and we don't have it all

1855
01:19:30,350 --> 01:19:27,570
figured out and so if we move ahead and

1856
01:19:32,959 --> 01:19:30,360
we look at these other species that are

1857
01:19:35,890 --> 01:19:32,969
out there that have abilities that we

1858
01:19:39,080 --> 01:19:35,900
lack the real danger

1859
01:19:41,719 --> 01:19:39,090
the foolish danger is that people will

1860
01:19:43,069 --> 01:19:41,729
think oh well yeah they would have they

1861
01:19:44,899 --> 01:19:43,079
have to be good because otherwise that

1862
01:19:46,700 --> 01:19:44,909
it would destroyed us by now which is

1863
01:19:48,589 --> 01:19:46,710
what you hear Steven Greer saying and

1864
01:19:50,750 --> 01:19:48,599
he's been saying forever you know we

1865
01:19:52,669 --> 01:19:50,760
would know if they were aggressive they

1866
01:19:54,919 --> 01:19:52,679
would have shown that to which I would

1867
01:19:56,540 --> 01:19:54,929
certainly beg to differ I don't think

1868
01:19:59,629 --> 01:19:56,550
that's a logical point whatsoever

1869
01:20:03,169 --> 01:19:59,639
there's lots of ways there's lots of

1870
01:20:06,979 --> 01:20:03,179
reasons that any life-form should at

1871
01:20:09,379 --> 01:20:06,989
least if not being mistrustful then at

1872
01:20:12,680 --> 01:20:09,389
least be cautious when dealing with a

1873
01:20:15,379 --> 01:20:12,690
new life-form because the fact is I'm

1874
01:20:18,529 --> 01:20:15,389
not a utopian I'm a realist and what a

1875
01:20:21,250 --> 01:20:18,539
realist says is that all life forms and

1876
01:20:23,959 --> 01:20:21,260
all species have their own goals and

1877
01:20:27,290 --> 01:20:23,969
it's not always win-win by the way

1878
01:20:29,870 --> 01:20:27,300
that's that's another [\h__\h] ideology

1879
01:20:31,580 --> 01:20:29,880
that we've taken on in the last couple

1880
01:20:34,160 --> 01:20:31,590
of hundred years in our society that

1881
01:20:36,950 --> 01:20:34,170
oh it's everyone can win all the time I

1882
01:20:38,660 --> 01:20:36,960
would say win-win happens sometimes it

1883
01:20:40,160 --> 01:20:38,670
can happen and sometimes it doesn't

1884
01:20:41,060 --> 01:20:40,170
happen it all depends on the

1885
01:20:44,799 --> 01:20:41,070
circumstances

1886
01:20:46,759 --> 01:20:44,809
so I don't know if these ETS are evil or

1887
01:20:48,319 --> 01:20:46,769
some of them or if they're just

1888
01:20:50,899 --> 01:20:48,329
following their own imperative for their

1889
01:20:54,410 --> 01:20:50,909
own species and doing what they do which

1890
01:20:56,479 --> 01:20:54,420
might might damage our interests like

1891
01:20:57,810 --> 01:20:56,489
that's totally possible well let me jump

1892
01:21:00,990 --> 01:20:57,820
over and play devil's

1893
01:21:02,700 --> 01:21:01,000
might help us you know and and I guess

1894
01:21:07,950 --> 01:21:02,710
I'll and play the clip but I would just

1895
01:21:10,500 --> 01:21:07,960
say I'm not confident that we have a

1896
01:21:12,240 --> 01:21:10,510
whole lot of information on the

1897
01:21:14,040 --> 01:21:12,250
motivations of these beings I've talked

1898
01:21:16,110 --> 01:21:14,050
in depth to David Jacobs I've talked in

1899
01:21:18,570 --> 01:21:16,120
death to the love and light crowd as

1900
01:21:20,310 --> 01:21:18,580
well and like everyone's got their own

1901
01:21:23,970 --> 01:21:20,320
take on this and I'm not convinced that

1902
01:21:25,710 --> 01:21:23,980
anyone really has nailed it fully so

1903
01:21:27,570 --> 01:21:25,720
that I so that I sit back and think oh

1904
01:21:29,070 --> 01:21:27,580
yes this is the person who's got it

1905
01:21:31,710 --> 01:21:29,080
correct like I just haven't gotten to

1906
01:21:33,330 --> 01:21:31,720
that point yet I think every day David

1907
01:21:34,980 --> 01:21:33,340
Jacobs is really interesting had him on

1908
01:21:36,420 --> 01:21:34,990
the show a couple of times had a kind of

1909
01:21:38,370 --> 01:21:36,430
threaded debate with him and Mary

1910
01:21:41,820 --> 01:21:38,380
Radwell who you would kind of call more

1911
01:21:44,010 --> 01:21:41,830
of the love and Mary I asked and but I

1912
01:21:45,990 --> 01:21:44,020
love respect Mary Robbo because I

1913
01:21:48,330 --> 01:21:46,000
respect her methodology her protocols

1914
01:21:50,430 --> 01:21:48,340
seem solid she seems very aware of that

1915
01:21:54,570 --> 01:21:50,440
you know of how to do the clinical

1916
01:21:57,090 --> 01:21:54,580
practice in terms of hypnosis but Lee

1917
01:21:59,610 --> 01:21:57,100
was fooled by the firefighter who turned

1918
01:22:02,970 --> 01:21:59,620
himself blue on skype just gotta say

1919
01:22:04,680 --> 01:22:02,980
that was a whole but you just run you

1920
01:22:06,150 --> 01:22:04,690
just kind of run the numbers it what I

1921
01:22:08,460 --> 01:22:06,160
was gonna really say for me at the end

1922
01:22:10,770 --> 01:22:08,470
of that is you know I thought Mary was

1923
01:22:12,210 --> 01:22:10,780
making a really good case and David is

1924
01:22:14,640 --> 01:22:12,220
making a very good case too and then I

1925
01:22:18,270 --> 01:22:14,650
asked me and I said David is insist on

1926
01:22:20,610 --> 01:22:18,280
one thing that it is a program and she

1927
01:22:23,790 --> 01:22:20,620
paused and goes well yeah it is a

1928
01:22:25,920 --> 01:22:23,800
program I was like what what do you mean

1929
01:22:27,450 --> 01:22:25,930
it's a program there's an agenda there's

1930
01:22:29,850 --> 01:22:27,460
an initiative they are trying to

1931
01:22:31,170 --> 01:22:29,860
accomplish something I don't see how

1932
01:22:33,720 --> 01:22:31,180
that fits with your overall narrative

1933
01:22:35,850 --> 01:22:33,730
but let me digress further because yeah

1934
01:22:38,850 --> 01:22:35,860
I'm friend with did with Ray Hernandez

1935
01:22:42,350 --> 01:22:38,860
the beyond UFO people they wrote that

1936
01:22:45,060 --> 01:22:42,360
book and right at Garissa foundation guy

1937
01:22:49,110 --> 01:22:45,070
super nice guy and the one thing that

1938
01:22:52,770 --> 01:22:49,120
that Ray has at this point is he has

1939
01:22:55,080 --> 01:22:52,780
data and you can not like his data or

1940
01:22:56,970 --> 01:22:55,090
you can argue with the methods of his

1941
01:22:59,490 --> 01:22:56,980
that he used for collecting that data

1942
01:23:01,350 --> 01:22:59,500
yes and yes so I would just say yes and

1943
01:23:02,610 --> 01:23:01,360
yes for me but everything sure I'm not

1944
01:23:04,590 --> 01:23:02,620
sure you'd I think you'd have to really

1945
01:23:06,510 --> 01:23:04,600
drill into that you know he has now

1946
01:23:09,240 --> 01:23:06,520
partnered with dr. Jeffrey long who is

1947
01:23:09,750 --> 01:23:09,250
radiation oncologist from Louisiana who

1948
01:23:12,180 --> 01:23:09,760
is

1949
01:23:16,070 --> 01:23:12,190
the largest database of near-death

1950
01:23:18,330 --> 01:23:16,080
experience and having spoken with

1951
01:23:20,520 --> 01:23:18,340
Jeffers New York Times best selling off

1952
01:23:23,960 --> 01:23:20,530
their in very accomplished scientific

1953
01:23:26,340 --> 01:23:23,970
researcher a lot of people kind of have

1954
01:23:28,710 --> 01:23:26,350
negative things disparaging things to

1955
01:23:31,890 --> 01:23:28,720
say about those surveys but they don't

1956
01:23:34,110 --> 01:23:31,900
do it in a very scientific way if their

1957
01:23:36,000 --> 01:23:34,120
criticism is not scientific because I

1958
01:23:38,520 --> 01:23:36,010
always remind people that you know if

1959
01:23:40,320 --> 01:23:38,530
you want to talk about pain research its

1960
01:23:42,960 --> 01:23:40,330
experiential if you want to talk about

1961
01:23:46,880 --> 01:23:42,970
depression research grief research so we

1962
01:23:50,970 --> 01:23:46,890
have a pretty understood methodology for

1963
01:23:53,220 --> 01:23:50,980
collecting organizing experience so you

1964
01:23:56,070 --> 01:23:53,230
look at the way that Ray did it I don't

1965
01:23:59,400 --> 01:23:56,080
find a lot of holes in his methodology

1966
01:24:02,220 --> 01:23:59,410
is his data set as complete as it needs

1967
01:24:04,440 --> 01:24:02,230
to be are people being left out of the

1968
01:24:05,310 --> 01:24:04,450
conversation that would add a different

1969
01:24:07,530 --> 01:24:05,320
flavor to it

1970
01:24:09,750 --> 01:24:07,540
III think that is possibly true and I've

1971
01:24:11,430 --> 01:24:09,760
been very direct and telling ray that

1972
01:24:13,710 --> 01:24:11,440
and say don't wind up on the wrong side

1973
01:24:15,900 --> 01:24:13,720
of this by pushing your agenda too far

1974
01:24:17,580 --> 01:24:15,910
but and there is a definite agenda

1975
01:24:20,610 --> 01:24:17,590
that's being pushed on that by that book

1976
01:24:22,560 --> 01:24:20,620
which I I'm uncomfortable with I don't I

1977
01:24:24,030 --> 01:24:22,570
don't think I see if you have to back

1978
01:24:26,850 --> 01:24:24,040
that up I think you'd have to back that

1979
01:24:29,490 --> 01:24:26,860
up support that the idea that there's an

1980
01:24:32,760 --> 01:24:29,500
agenda because what they would say is

1981
01:24:34,380 --> 01:24:32,770
that the agenda and and grant Cameron's

1982
01:24:37,020 --> 01:24:34,390
right there with him right I mean he is

1983
01:24:40,440 --> 01:24:37,030
part of a project he would say that the

1984
01:24:42,330 --> 01:24:40,450
agenda if you will fell out of the data

1985
01:24:44,130 --> 01:24:42,340
now I know that to be true of the

1986
01:24:46,130 --> 01:24:44,140
near-death experience research in jeez

1987
01:24:49,830 --> 01:24:46,140
like I say please I have too many

1988
01:24:51,810 --> 01:24:49,840
interviews with trusted academic

1989
01:24:53,400 --> 01:24:51,820
peer-reviewed scholars has been over 200

1990
01:24:54,810 --> 01:24:53,410
period papers and near-death experience

1991
01:24:57,150 --> 01:24:54,820
and I get the same [\h__\h] from

1992
01:24:58,710 --> 01:24:57,160
skeptics all the time they just don't

1993
01:25:00,030 --> 01:24:58,720
know the data they don't know the

1994
01:25:01,560 --> 01:25:00,040
methodology they don't know the

1995
01:25:04,380 --> 01:25:01,570
researchers and then they say oh that's

1996
01:25:06,270 --> 01:25:04,390
adrenogenital and I'm like who has the

1997
01:25:08,160 --> 01:25:06,280
agenda not these guys know like I want

1998
01:25:09,180 --> 01:25:08,170
to jump it so I actually agree with that

1999
01:25:12,390 --> 01:25:09,190
last statement you make and I think

2000
01:25:13,680 --> 01:25:12,400
skeptics are way way they they're funny

2001
01:25:17,160 --> 01:25:13,690
because they don't realize how ignorant

2002
01:25:20,010 --> 01:25:17,170
they are my only critique I think beyond

2003
01:25:21,030 --> 01:25:20,020
UFOs has a lot of does have merit to it

2004
01:25:22,080 --> 01:25:21,040
so I don't want to just dismiss the

2005
01:25:24,149 --> 01:25:22,090
whole thing but

2006
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:24,159
I don't like about it is this is my

2007
01:25:26,970 --> 01:25:25,810
understanding maybe you can correct me

2008
01:25:31,439 --> 01:25:26,980
and I have not spoken with ray

2009
01:25:35,030 --> 01:25:31,449
so I'll just say that but that it was

2010
01:25:37,379 --> 01:25:35,040
it's all self-reported experiences and

2011
01:25:40,859 --> 01:25:37,389
without without any real investigation

2012
01:25:42,870 --> 01:25:40,869
so you and I both I have spoken with

2013
01:25:45,030 --> 01:25:42,880
countless people who've volunteered

2014
01:25:47,459 --> 01:25:45,040
their experiences to me and they told me

2015
01:25:49,740 --> 01:25:47,469
their story and I'll just tell you like

2016
01:25:51,479 --> 01:25:49,750
on a personal level a lot of those

2017
01:25:53,520 --> 01:25:51,489
people seem very credible to me and a

2018
01:25:55,800 --> 01:25:53,530
lot of them do not seem credible to me a

2019
01:25:58,080 --> 01:25:55,810
lot of them do not seem credible to me

2020
01:26:01,020 --> 01:25:58,090
and a lot of them frankly seem mentally

2021
01:26:02,609 --> 01:26:01,030
unstable and mentally ill and this is

2022
01:26:04,919 --> 01:26:02,619
something no one ever talks about but

2023
01:26:06,359 --> 01:26:04,929
it's definitely a reality and the other

2024
01:26:08,609 --> 01:26:06,369
thing is a lot of it is very

2025
01:26:13,250 --> 01:26:08,619
ideologically driven and I guess I'll

2026
01:26:15,870 --> 01:26:13,260
just say like New Age ideology so a huge

2027
01:26:18,209 --> 01:26:15,880
from what I could gather a significant

2028
01:26:20,700 --> 01:26:18,219
portion of the respondents to that

2029
01:26:23,669 --> 01:26:20,710
survey and I don't know this for a fact

2030
01:26:25,350 --> 01:26:23,679
but I they seem to be from basically

2031
01:26:29,879 --> 01:26:25,360
Southern California

2032
01:26:32,820 --> 01:26:29,889
maybe Sedona very like New Age cultural

2033
01:26:34,919 --> 01:26:32,830
centers now I know that's not entirely

2034
01:26:36,540 --> 01:26:34,929
true and and I don't know what the

2035
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:36,550
numbers are but it strikes me as a very

2036
01:26:41,910 --> 01:26:39,250
high percentage so you've got a very

2037
01:26:44,640 --> 01:26:41,920
strong ideological component already

2038
01:26:46,680 --> 01:26:44,650
going into that where all of those

2039
01:26:48,570 --> 01:26:46,690
people probably almost every last one of

2040
01:26:50,250 --> 01:26:48,580
them will say yeah our space brothers

2041
01:26:54,419 --> 01:26:50,260
our Galactic Federation are here to help

2042
01:26:55,709 --> 01:26:54,429
us I have a nice collection a little bit

2043
01:26:57,479 --> 01:26:55,719
that I've that I've looked into his

2044
01:26:59,339 --> 01:26:57,489
research and spoken with ray a couple

2045
01:27:01,320 --> 01:26:59,349
times and again I'm pretty pretty

2046
01:27:02,669 --> 01:27:01,330
well-versed in how this research works

2047
01:27:05,129 --> 01:27:02,679
and one thing I have to do is kind of

2048
01:27:07,859 --> 01:27:05,139
dispel the notion that if you do the

2049
01:27:09,930 --> 01:27:07,869
survey right that shouldn't come into

2050
01:27:12,240 --> 01:27:09,940
play so we can then look at the

2051
01:27:14,490 --> 01:27:12,250
methodology that they use and say hey

2052
01:27:16,050 --> 01:27:14,500
their methodology failed in this respect

2053
01:27:17,939 --> 01:27:16,060
like you're saying the sample size was

2054
01:27:19,800 --> 01:27:17,949
not big enough the sample size was

2055
01:27:21,780 --> 01:27:19,810
skewed or biased in this way or that way

2056
01:27:23,100 --> 01:27:21,790
but there's ways to get around that

2057
01:27:24,510 --> 01:27:23,110
there's ways to control that because

2058
01:27:26,339 --> 01:27:24,520
they do it all the time like I'm saying

2059
01:27:28,649 --> 01:27:26,349
if you're doing a research on pain

2060
01:27:29,630 --> 01:27:28,659
you're asking people the same questions

2061
01:27:31,610 --> 01:27:29,640
we rely on that

2062
01:27:33,800 --> 01:27:31,620
have a method of doing it now in the

2063
01:27:36,050 --> 01:27:33,810
people he's had on board who helped him

2064
01:27:38,420 --> 01:27:36,060
dr. Leo sprinkle dr. Rudy Shields

2065
01:27:40,400 --> 01:27:38,430
Harvard physicist I mean he has a panel

2066
01:27:42,320 --> 01:27:40,410
of very smart people that yeah they're

2067
01:27:43,670 --> 01:27:42,330
good people and again like I'm going

2068
01:27:45,380 --> 01:27:43,680
over this a million times like in

2069
01:27:47,060 --> 01:27:45,390
parapsychology research and I remember

2070
01:27:49,880 --> 01:27:47,070
Rupert Sheldrake with biologists from

2071
01:27:51,350 --> 01:27:49,890
Cambridge and you know he's done all

2072
01:27:53,180 --> 01:27:51,360
this research and then to the sceptics

2073
01:27:54,770 --> 01:27:53,190
and then you talk to Rupert and he's a

2074
01:27:56,480 --> 01:27:54,780
pretty calm guy but then when you really

2075
01:27:57,770 --> 01:27:56,490
get him wound up he says you don't think

2076
01:27:59,570 --> 01:27:57,780
I thought about that the first five

2077
01:28:00,980 --> 01:27:59,580
minutes after I thought of this thing I

2078
01:28:02,510 --> 01:28:00,990
thought how am I going to control for

2079
01:28:04,520 --> 01:28:02,520
sample size how am I going to control

2080
01:28:06,350 --> 01:28:04,530
for you know being skewed this way or

2081
01:28:08,960 --> 01:28:06,360
that way so people who know how to do

2082
01:28:10,670 --> 01:28:08,970
this do it correctly so the question

2083
01:28:13,550 --> 01:28:10,680
would be someone needs to dig into that

2084
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:13,560
and say here are the faults I see in the

2085
01:28:16,940 --> 01:28:14,970
methodology and I just throw one other

2086
01:28:19,100 --> 01:28:16,950
thing it's like people say you can't do

2087
01:28:21,290 --> 01:28:19,110
online surveys well there's been all

2088
01:28:24,350 --> 01:28:21,300
sorts of published work that suggests

2089
01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:24,360
that online surveys are no less reliable

2090
01:28:29,270 --> 01:28:27,450
than in-person surveys and depending on

2091
01:28:30,800 --> 01:28:29,280
the subject and by the way I guess we

2092
01:28:32,230 --> 01:28:30,810
should just tell people I'm sure many

2093
01:28:34,430 --> 01:28:32,240
listeners are aware but this study

2094
01:28:37,700 --> 01:28:34,440
essentially concludes that the vast

2095
01:28:39,620 --> 01:28:37,710
majority of what we might call a alien

2096
01:28:41,810 --> 01:28:39,630
or ET encounters are very positive very

2097
01:28:44,840 --> 01:28:41,820
benign I think it's like 80 percent or

2098
01:28:47,000 --> 01:28:44,850
more are very positive right something

2099
01:28:50,740 --> 01:28:47,010
like that by the by the respondents and

2100
01:28:54,920 --> 01:28:50,750
something like 5,000 individuals I think

2101
01:28:58,640 --> 01:28:54,930
gave their data on this so it's a it's a

2102
01:29:01,190 --> 01:28:58,650
fairly large survey and and I I don't

2103
01:29:02,450 --> 01:29:01,200
think that you can't do online surveys I

2104
01:29:05,060 --> 01:29:02,460
don't think that that's necessarily the

2105
01:29:07,550 --> 01:29:05,070
case but for something like ET

2106
01:29:09,290 --> 01:29:07,560
experiences I would be a little careful

2107
01:29:12,680 --> 01:29:09,300
you know when I talk with David Jacobs

2108
01:29:14,300 --> 01:29:12,690
for example about this so as you might

2109
01:29:16,190 --> 01:29:14,310
imagine David just would roll his eyes

2110
01:29:18,350 --> 01:29:16,200
at that and think oh my god they've got

2111
01:29:20,840 --> 01:29:18,360
it all wrong but his reasoning is as

2112
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:20,850
such he would say because when you're

2113
01:29:26,030 --> 01:29:22,650
dealing with these beings they deal in

2114
01:29:28,070 --> 01:29:26,040
deception and he said when I when I put

2115
01:29:31,040 --> 01:29:28,080
someone through hypnotic regression I've

2116
01:29:34,280 --> 01:29:31,050
got to go several times with them I've

2117
01:29:36,920 --> 01:29:34,290
gotta go deep until I can expect to

2118
01:29:40,190 --> 01:29:36,930
actually reach something past all the

2119
01:29:41,540 --> 01:29:40,200
mental shielding that's there now you

2120
01:29:42,740 --> 01:29:41,550
can take what he says and say well

2121
01:29:45,830 --> 01:29:42,750
you're just

2122
01:29:47,960 --> 01:29:45,840
that's just your way of of peeling away

2123
01:29:51,650 --> 01:29:47,970
whatever resistance to get to your

2124
01:29:53,810 --> 01:29:51,660
preconceived notion of what what that is

2125
01:29:58,460 --> 01:29:53,820
who knows what is true here I don't I

2126
01:30:01,880 --> 01:29:58,470
don't really know but I have I don't

2127
01:30:04,820 --> 01:30:01,890
know how much stock I put in that that

2128
01:30:06,290 --> 01:30:04,830
that free study beyond UFOs I'm just not

2129
01:30:08,450 --> 01:30:06,300
sure and it does strike me as a bit

2130
01:30:11,510 --> 01:30:08,460
strike magnitude I have to say like the

2131
01:30:14,120 --> 01:30:11,520
way they can come across ray can come

2132
01:30:16,130 --> 01:30:14,130
across as strident and I think and I've

2133
01:30:19,100 --> 01:30:16,140
said that him person I'll say it on the

2134
01:30:21,110 --> 01:30:19,110
air I don't think that helps him or

2135
01:30:23,330 --> 01:30:21,120
helps what he's trying to do he should

2136
01:30:24,770 --> 01:30:23,340
have been like evangelistic for his but

2137
01:30:26,870 --> 01:30:24,780
should be about that he should be about

2138
01:30:29,540 --> 01:30:26,880
the data and that's how near-death

2139
01:30:31,370 --> 01:30:29,550
experience science has advanced because

2140
01:30:33,500 --> 01:30:31,380
it's always about the data and you take

2141
01:30:36,050 --> 01:30:33,510
criticisms of the data to heart and you

2142
01:30:38,720 --> 01:30:36,060
make the data stronger and stronger and

2143
01:30:40,640 --> 01:30:38,730
I think you'll see that in the future it

2144
01:30:42,110 --> 01:30:40,650
is a first step and I do have to say you

2145
01:30:43,940 --> 01:30:42,120
know the other thing if you drill into

2146
01:30:45,710 --> 01:30:43,950
the data which is always what I do with

2147
01:30:48,530 --> 01:30:45,720
with Ray when I talk to them I say ray

2148
01:30:50,750 --> 01:30:48,540
yeah but you got my you got fifteen or I

2149
01:30:52,100 --> 01:30:50,760
don't forget what it is I think by my

2150
01:30:55,430 --> 01:30:52,110
account it was above twenty percent you

2151
01:30:57,890 --> 01:30:55,440
got my lab what the f is a my is my lab

2152
01:30:59,960 --> 01:30:57,900
doing in there this is if this is god

2153
01:31:02,000 --> 01:30:59,970
what you're gonna be in in your near

2154
01:31:04,160 --> 01:31:02,010
death uh in your near-death experience

2155
01:31:06,410 --> 01:31:04,170
life review when et has to go through

2156
01:31:08,480 --> 01:31:06,420
their life review what are they gonna

2157
01:31:11,150 --> 01:31:08,490
say about that my lab experience what do

2158
01:31:13,190 --> 01:31:11,160
they say about the reptilians raping you

2159
01:31:14,960 --> 01:31:13,200
know some some woman what are they gonna

2160
01:31:17,270 --> 01:31:14,970
say about that what does the et look

2161
01:31:20,060 --> 01:31:17,280
like in their life from you I I think

2162
01:31:21,650 --> 01:31:20,070
that that that data is out there and I

2163
01:31:24,670 --> 01:31:21,660
agree with you to the respect that I

2164
01:31:29,060 --> 01:31:24,680
that data doesn't come through enough in

2165
01:31:30,860 --> 01:31:29,070
Ray's work it is worrisome to me that

2166
01:31:32,180 --> 01:31:30,870
data has to be in there because we we do

2167
01:31:35,450 --> 01:31:32,190
understand that to be part of this

2168
01:31:36,770 --> 01:31:35,460
experience I was good I think yes I

2169
01:31:38,960 --> 01:31:36,780
agree I'm glad you mentioned that I

2170
01:31:41,870 --> 01:31:38,970
think that um the whole good versus bad

2171
01:31:43,850 --> 01:31:41,880
et thing a lot of it is guided by our

2172
01:31:46,010 --> 01:31:43,860
you'd almost say our political

2173
01:31:47,810 --> 01:31:46,020
orientation liberal or conservative I

2174
01:31:50,390 --> 01:31:47,820
mean it's almost that simple I think

2175
01:31:52,010 --> 01:31:50,400
people who are by their natural

2176
01:31:53,149 --> 01:31:52,020
personality would consider themselves

2177
01:31:55,580 --> 01:31:53,159
very liberal

2178
01:31:58,520 --> 01:31:55,590
are much more likely in my experience

2179
01:32:01,429 --> 01:31:58,530
looking at this for 20 years - look at

2180
01:32:04,069 --> 01:32:01,439
these beings as part of you know the

2181
01:32:06,169 --> 01:32:04,079
Galactic community and as good and these

2182
01:32:09,679 --> 01:32:06,179
are the people who are I find more

2183
01:32:12,889 --> 01:32:09,689
likely to interpret their telepathic

2184
01:32:16,580 --> 01:32:12,899
downloads as a positive experience and

2185
01:32:18,770 --> 01:32:16,590
so on and I think those who are more

2186
01:32:21,259 --> 01:32:18,780
inclined to interpret this phenomenon in

2187
01:32:22,669 --> 01:32:21,269
a as an adversarial or negative way tend

2188
01:32:24,919 --> 01:32:22,679
to be a little bit more conservative in

2189
01:32:26,659 --> 01:32:24,929
their overall orientation that's my own

2190
01:32:28,520 --> 01:32:26,669
observation I know there's exceptions

2191
01:32:30,799 --> 01:32:28,530
and the other the other thing to

2192
01:32:33,500 --> 01:32:30,809
distinguish is physical versus non

2193
01:32:35,540 --> 01:32:33,510
physical contact so when people tell me

2194
01:32:39,259 --> 01:32:35,550
that they get a download or they have a

2195
01:32:41,209 --> 01:32:39,269
non physical encounter I don't I don't

2196
01:32:44,859 --> 01:32:41,219
always dismiss it but you've got to

2197
01:32:46,939 --> 01:32:44,869
really bring me some reason to believe

2198
01:32:48,739 --> 01:32:46,949
we're as opposed to people who talk

2199
01:32:50,239 --> 01:32:48,749
about physical encounters I'm much more

2200
01:32:55,750 --> 01:32:50,249
interested in those and when you look at

2201
01:32:58,279 --> 01:32:55,760
the physical encounters that you know

2202
01:33:00,290 --> 01:32:58,289
see I'm not sure what you're biased I'm

2203
01:33:01,759 --> 01:33:00,300
not sure about your bias there Richard I

2204
01:33:04,279 --> 01:33:01,769
mean you're to go back by flickering

2205
01:33:06,639 --> 01:33:04,289
lights I mean I've heard this thing over

2206
01:33:08,839 --> 01:33:06,649
and over again that is a non-physical

2207
01:33:12,169 --> 01:33:08,849
interface I know you got me you got me

2208
01:33:14,479 --> 01:33:12,179
there I'm gonna admit that but it is a

2209
01:33:16,699 --> 01:33:14,489
bias my bias is toward physical material

2210
01:33:17,869 --> 01:33:16,709
encounters I'm not going to deny that so

2211
01:33:22,149 --> 01:33:17,879
maybe that's something I'll have to keep

2212
01:33:24,979 --> 01:33:22,159
working on I'm admitting that here but

2213
01:33:28,009 --> 01:33:24,989
but I'll also say that a lot of people

2214
01:33:31,069 --> 01:33:28,019
who have come to me with encounter

2215
01:33:33,649 --> 01:33:31,079
stories I guess all I would say is

2216
01:33:35,719 --> 01:33:33,659
they're not they're not always credible

2217
01:33:37,040 --> 01:33:35,729
people and it's not something that

2218
01:33:38,989 --> 01:33:37,050
people ever like we don't like to

2219
01:33:40,459 --> 01:33:38,999
discuss this in this field we don't like

2220
01:33:44,810 --> 01:33:40,469
to talk about the fact that there's a

2221
01:33:46,759 --> 01:33:44,820
lot of seriously damaged individuals I

2222
01:33:49,219 --> 01:33:46,769
hate to say this but there are a lot of

2223
01:33:51,199 --> 01:33:49,229
damaged people who are drawn to this

2224
01:33:54,560 --> 01:33:51,209
field sometimes because they've had

2225
01:33:56,540 --> 01:33:54,570
experiences but sometimes though because

2226
01:33:59,839 --> 01:33:56,550
they're damaged and like it's hard to

2227
01:34:01,770 --> 01:33:59,849
distinguish like what what is what and

2228
01:34:03,120 --> 01:34:01,780
and

2229
01:34:07,080 --> 01:34:03,130
I don't know if I relevant be able to

2230
01:34:09,270 --> 01:34:07,090
figure it out but so I have I have

2231
01:34:11,130 --> 01:34:09,280
sympathy and I have have compassion for

2232
01:34:13,800 --> 01:34:11,140
all of those people because you can tell

2233
01:34:15,960 --> 01:34:13,810
they're in pain but beyond that I have

2234
01:34:17,550 --> 01:34:15,970
to try to get to like what is true and I

2235
01:34:20,730 --> 01:34:17,560
don't I don't know how to get to the

2236
01:34:22,200 --> 01:34:20,740
truth of some of those stories you know

2237
01:34:25,350 --> 01:34:22,210
it went back in the days on a new Budd

2238
01:34:26,700 --> 01:34:25,360
Hopkins I was at his place once and he

2239
01:34:28,920 --> 01:34:26,710
showed me all this collection of

2240
01:34:30,780 --> 01:34:28,930
photographs of scoop marks and marked

2241
01:34:34,860 --> 01:34:30,790
body marks and all that he had a huge

2242
01:34:38,730 --> 01:34:34,870
collection of that bud was all about

2243
01:34:40,530 --> 01:34:38,740
getting physical evidence and to

2244
01:34:42,440 --> 01:34:40,540
whatever extent possible even even

2245
01:34:46,140 --> 01:34:42,450
though he didn't hypnotic regression

2246
01:34:49,350 --> 01:34:46,150
that was his his predilection and and

2247
01:34:52,230 --> 01:34:49,360
that's that remains mine because it's

2248
01:34:54,030 --> 01:34:52,240
it's something that I I guess I could

2249
01:34:56,070 --> 01:34:54,040
say I know how to do like I know how to

2250
01:34:59,490 --> 01:34:56,080
to deal with the physical world

2251
01:35:01,440 --> 01:34:59,500
I mean said all about I've been

2252
01:35:03,660 --> 01:35:01,450
struggling for the last decade or more

2253
01:35:06,000 --> 01:35:03,670
and trying to incorporate a true

2254
01:35:08,040 --> 01:35:06,010
understanding of consciousness into my

2255
01:35:10,920 --> 01:35:08,050
understanding of ufology and of the

2256
01:35:14,670 --> 01:35:10,930
world itself so I'm open to it I don't

2257
01:35:16,950 --> 01:35:14,680
throw it out but I I try to I try to

2258
01:35:18,600 --> 01:35:16,960
treat it carefully I don't I'm not

2259
01:35:21,380 --> 01:35:18,610
someone who's ever just going to embrace

2260
01:35:24,150 --> 01:35:21,390
it because it seems like a good idea

2261
01:35:26,100 --> 01:35:24,160
with we have to find out a way to be I

2262
01:35:27,510 --> 01:35:26,110
don't know how to be evidence-based with

2263
01:35:30,480 --> 01:35:27,520
some of this consciousness type of

2264
01:35:32,640 --> 01:35:30,490
eminence may be what raised on on to is

2265
01:35:35,640 --> 01:35:32,650
a good idea like you get you do survey

2266
01:35:38,490 --> 01:35:35,650
and you get as many people as you can

2267
01:35:42,980 --> 01:35:38,500
get but are all you doing is just

2268
01:35:46,080 --> 01:35:42,990
getting social you know social

2269
01:35:48,870 --> 01:35:46,090
prejudices and social ideologies instead

2270
01:35:51,630 --> 01:35:48,880
like is that all you're getting and I

2271
01:35:54,560 --> 01:35:51,640
suspect that a lot of it what he's

2272
01:35:59,070 --> 01:35:54,570
getting is that he's getting just people

2273
01:36:00,450 --> 01:35:59,080
offering an ideological take on maybe an

2274
01:36:01,860 --> 01:36:00,460
interesting dream experience they had

2275
01:36:04,170 --> 01:36:01,870
like something that might not can be

2276
01:36:06,240 --> 01:36:04,180
considered very strong evidence is being

2277
01:36:09,270 --> 01:36:06,250
considered evidence in some of these

2278
01:36:12,090 --> 01:36:09,280
accounts do you think that's that's an

2279
01:36:15,399 --> 01:36:12,100
unreasonable objection or well there's

2280
01:36:18,010 --> 01:36:15,409
something to do that you know I guess

2281
01:36:21,310 --> 01:36:18,020
I'd go back rewind it a little bit back

2282
01:36:23,680 --> 01:36:21,320
to what you said is we need somebody we

2283
01:36:25,030 --> 01:36:23,690
need both sides we need somebody who's

2284
01:36:27,760 --> 01:36:25,040
out there willing to collect the

2285
01:36:29,800 --> 01:36:27,770
evidence the best we can because you

2286
01:36:32,680 --> 01:36:29,810
know the thing about the god thing the

2287
01:36:36,070 --> 01:36:32,690
angel thing with Chris Bledsoe or the

2288
01:36:37,810 --> 01:36:36,080
god thing that Grant Cameron mentions

2289
01:36:39,550 --> 01:36:37,820
which is really I think a punt when I

2290
01:36:41,560 --> 01:36:39,560
say and I agree with you you know say

2291
01:36:43,810 --> 01:36:41,570
well there's no good or evil and you

2292
01:36:45,340 --> 01:36:43,820
know look at Michael Newton in between

2293
01:36:47,530 --> 01:36:45,350
lives and it all works out and we're

2294
01:36:49,270 --> 01:36:47,540
here for a purpose it's like I need

2295
01:36:51,820 --> 01:36:49,280
something more than that buddy you're

2296
01:36:53,979 --> 01:36:51,830
gonna have to explain the rape and

2297
01:36:55,750 --> 01:36:53,989
torture of those Reds system it you're

2298
01:36:58,090 --> 01:36:55,760
gonna have to explain it to me your

2299
01:37:00,610 --> 01:36:58,100
parent tell that's of that kid's parent

2300
01:37:02,620 --> 01:37:00,620
yeah tell us - tell that to yourself if

2301
01:37:05,350 --> 01:37:02,630
you are a parent tell that to yourself

2302
01:37:07,419 --> 01:37:05,360
if you're a victim if you have been

2303
01:37:09,729 --> 01:37:07,429
perfect this has been portrayed on you

2304
01:37:11,890 --> 01:37:09,739
don't we need to hear and respect your

2305
01:37:14,919 --> 01:37:11,900
story we don't need to take it and then

2306
01:37:16,990 --> 01:37:14,929
you know turn it into something that we

2307
01:37:19,390 --> 01:37:17,000
imagined it to be inside of our thing

2308
01:37:20,410 --> 01:37:19,400
but I gotta say like I think a lot of

2309
01:37:23,020 --> 01:37:20,420
those people I don't I don't know about

2310
01:37:25,450 --> 01:37:23,030
grant in particular and he is my friend

2311
01:37:28,180 --> 01:37:25,460
but I think a large number of those

2312
01:37:30,629 --> 01:37:28,190
people who have that opinion I really

2313
01:37:34,060 --> 01:37:30,639
wonder how how much of the world they've

2314
01:37:37,930 --> 01:37:34,070
experienced I truly wonder like have

2315
01:37:39,040 --> 01:37:37,940
they really experienced truly evil

2316
01:37:40,840 --> 01:37:39,050
people there's a lot of folks in this

2317
01:37:42,430 --> 01:37:40,850
world who live very insulated lives and

2318
01:37:49,149 --> 01:37:42,440
they they live in their own kind of

2319
01:37:50,260 --> 01:37:49,159
bubble so I'm not inclined you know yes

2320
01:37:52,720 --> 01:37:50,270
I understand in the greater

2321
01:37:54,600 --> 01:37:52,730
philosophical you step take 10 steps

2322
01:37:57,459 --> 01:37:54,610
back you can see the big picture

2323
01:37:59,410 --> 01:37:57,469
there's no good there's no evil okay you

2324
01:38:01,689 --> 01:37:59,420
can make that argument but in our world

2325
01:38:05,140 --> 01:38:01,699
I think there's definitely good and

2326
01:38:07,810 --> 01:38:05,150
there is definitely evil but it does get

2327
01:38:10,030 --> 01:38:07,820
complicated I mean that's why it's so

2328
01:38:12,550 --> 01:38:10,040
interesting and I think it's more than

2329
01:38:14,860 --> 01:38:12,560
just fun it's it's important to kind of

2330
01:38:18,070 --> 01:38:14,870
switch back to the Chris Bledsoe story

2331
01:38:21,129 --> 01:38:18,080
right and say here's someone who's run

2332
01:38:22,780 --> 01:38:21,139
the gauntlet done all the right stuff in

2333
01:38:25,330 --> 01:38:22,790
terms of trying to understand his

2334
01:38:27,920 --> 01:38:25,340
experience and seems to genuinely have

2335
01:38:30,470 --> 01:38:27,930
come to the conclusion

2336
01:38:32,300 --> 01:38:30,480
is unfortunately for you very much in

2337
01:38:34,370 --> 01:38:32,310
line with what ray is saying because

2338
01:38:38,990 --> 01:38:34,380
that is kind of that's just Bledsoe

2339
01:38:40,940 --> 01:38:39,000
story Chris Bledsoe story is repeated

2340
01:38:43,640 --> 01:38:40,950
over and over again in Ray's research

2341
01:38:45,260 --> 01:38:43,650
which is I was traumatized by this I

2342
01:38:48,710 --> 01:38:45,270
thought it was the worst thing in the

2343
01:38:51,980 --> 01:38:48,720
world and over time I came I came to

2344
01:38:54,430 --> 01:38:51,990
understand it as part of my path part of

2345
01:38:58,310 --> 01:38:54,440
my spiritual awakening and part of my

2346
01:39:01,310 --> 01:38:58,320
spiritual journey and that opens us up

2347
01:39:04,460 --> 01:39:01,320
like tea to you and to me it opens us up

2348
01:39:06,470 --> 01:39:04,470
to all sorts of abuse we've heard that

2349
01:39:08,120 --> 01:39:06,480
over and over again from every guy who's

2350
01:39:11,660 --> 01:39:08,130
spinning some cult or New Age religion

2351
01:39:13,700 --> 01:39:11,670
or even old world religion as a means to

2352
01:39:16,070 --> 01:39:13,710
get us and manipulate us and control us

2353
01:39:17,450 --> 01:39:16,080
but at the same time I think we have to

2354
01:39:20,360 --> 01:39:17,460
remain open to the possibility that

2355
01:39:21,320 --> 01:39:20,370
there may be some fundamental truth to

2356
01:39:22,640 --> 01:39:21,330
that and that's why I've been so

2357
01:39:26,180 --> 01:39:22,650
interested in a near death experience

2358
01:39:28,070 --> 01:39:26,190
because it does you know just to recap

2359
01:39:30,380 --> 01:39:28,080
people listen to show for this like a

2360
01:39:33,070 --> 01:39:30,390
thousand times but the brain is out of

2361
01:39:36,110 --> 01:39:33,080
the equation and near-death experience

2362
01:39:37,720 --> 01:39:36,120
experience science has brought us to the

2363
01:39:40,310 --> 01:39:37,730
point where we can say that we have

2364
01:39:42,560 --> 01:39:40,320
resuscitation studies we have studies of

2365
01:39:45,260 --> 01:39:42,570
people who are under extreme anesthesia

2366
01:39:47,780 --> 01:39:45,270
in cardiac arrest we know that the brain

2367
01:39:49,430 --> 01:39:47,790
is out of the equation there and now

2368
01:39:52,190 --> 01:39:49,440
these people are having these kind of

2369
01:39:54,740 --> 01:39:52,200
encounters and experiences that have

2370
01:39:57,590 --> 01:39:54,750
this overlap with the et experience but

2371
01:40:00,200 --> 01:39:57,600
also have this transcendent chris

2372
01:40:03,740 --> 01:40:00,210
Bledsoe angel god kind of thing going on

2373
01:40:07,670 --> 01:40:03,750
too so we're kind of stuck with having

2374
01:40:09,290 --> 01:40:07,680
to deal with both and I love I bet

2375
01:40:12,110 --> 01:40:09,300
you're driving a stake in the ground on

2376
01:40:15,410 --> 01:40:12,120
one hand and saying I do have to hold

2377
01:40:16,640 --> 01:40:15,420
the dolmen line of evidence and at the

2378
01:40:18,050 --> 01:40:16,650
other hand you're still doing these

2379
01:40:21,140 --> 01:40:18,060
freaking interviews and you're gonna do

2380
01:40:22,400 --> 01:40:21,150
it Chris Bledsoe that's awesome it's

2381
01:40:25,310 --> 01:40:22,410
totally true and you know what's funny

2382
01:40:27,920 --> 01:40:25,320
is when I said a little while ago like

2383
01:40:30,080 --> 01:40:27,930
there's good and there's evil I I

2384
01:40:31,760 --> 01:40:30,090
realize like I better be careful with

2385
01:40:36,320 --> 01:40:31,770
that because like that's that could be a

2386
01:40:38,120 --> 01:40:36,330
very I mean I'm realizing I've

2387
01:40:39,770 --> 01:40:38,130
contradicted myself probably about

2388
01:40:40,929 --> 01:40:39,780
countless times in this interview

2389
01:40:44,469 --> 01:40:40,939
already

2390
01:40:47,529 --> 01:40:44,479
and and by stating that there's

2391
01:40:49,029 --> 01:40:47,539
absolutely good and evil well actually I

2392
01:40:51,520 --> 01:40:49,039
didn't say that I said there's relative

2393
01:40:52,929 --> 01:40:51,530
good and evil but I still have to be

2394
01:40:54,609 --> 01:40:52,939
very careful about that because when you

2395
01:40:56,109 --> 01:40:54,619
think about international relations for

2396
01:41:01,000 --> 01:40:56,119
example which is a very big interest of

2397
01:41:02,560 --> 01:41:01,010
mine you want to be really careful when

2398
01:41:04,120 --> 01:41:02,570
you start equating the interests of one

2399
01:41:05,919 --> 01:41:04,130
nation with good and another Asian

2400
01:41:10,870 --> 01:41:05,929
nation with evil like that's a really

2401
01:41:13,959 --> 01:41:10,880
bad bad mistake to make so I don't like

2402
01:41:16,569 --> 01:41:13,969
to make that mistake so I just I think

2403
01:41:18,279 --> 01:41:16,579
on a personal level there are evil

2404
01:41:20,409 --> 01:41:18,289
things that are done and on a there are

2405
01:41:24,399 --> 01:41:20,419
good things that are done and I I would

2406
01:41:28,779 --> 01:41:24,409
maintain that but we do have to be

2407
01:41:30,669 --> 01:41:28,789
careful like I don't like this is why I

2408
01:41:32,409 --> 01:41:30,679
don't like zealots and I don't I don't

2409
01:41:35,020 --> 01:41:32,419
like fanatics of almost any sort they

2410
01:41:36,159 --> 01:41:35,030
scare me and by the way I think we're

2411
01:41:38,140 --> 01:41:36,169
living in an era where people have

2412
01:41:40,270 --> 01:41:38,150
really becoming zealots in all different

2413
01:41:42,640 --> 01:41:40,280
ways and I think it's by design I think

2414
01:41:44,529 --> 01:41:42,650
there that that's you know not to get

2415
01:41:47,919 --> 01:41:44,539
political because I don't play that but

2416
01:41:50,140 --> 01:41:47,929
I think that's the role of Donald Trump

2417
01:41:51,850 --> 01:41:50,150
that's why I think Donald Trump you know

2418
01:41:53,529 --> 01:41:51,860
and and several people have come out and

2419
01:41:55,000 --> 01:41:53,539
said this this is an original but I

2420
01:41:59,589 --> 01:41:55,010
think both those candidates were

2421
01:42:03,489 --> 01:41:59,599
suitable to a certain group that cares

2422
01:42:06,459 --> 01:42:03,499
about that stuff and Hillary I take both

2423
01:42:10,979 --> 01:42:06,469
Trump and Hillary were acceptable to a

2424
01:42:14,679 --> 01:42:10,989
certain ruling class that is the techno

2425
01:42:16,929 --> 01:42:14,689
do girls order banking finance

2426
01:42:18,729 --> 01:42:16,939
intelligence stuff that I don't fully

2427
01:42:21,790 --> 01:42:18,739
understand but seems to always be in

2428
01:42:24,399 --> 01:42:21,800
play whether it's 9/11 or whatever it is

2429
01:42:29,229 --> 01:42:24,409
but I think that one advantage of Trump

2430
01:42:32,620 --> 01:42:29,239
for that certain class above the classes

2431
01:42:35,529 --> 01:42:32,630
is that it created an incredible

2432
01:42:37,540 --> 01:42:35,539
divisive nough so that people don't

2433
01:42:39,879 --> 01:42:37,550
think about the fact that the Patriot

2434
01:42:41,969 --> 01:42:39,889
Act was rubber stamped at the same time

2435
01:42:44,649 --> 01:42:41,979
they were doing the charade about

2436
01:42:47,679 --> 01:42:44,659
impeachment or the rest of this divisive

2437
01:42:49,120 --> 01:42:47,689
'no still if you were playing the game

2438
01:42:50,889 --> 01:42:49,130
if you're trying and i'm getting into

2439
01:42:52,959 --> 01:42:50,899
this political rant which i just never

2440
01:42:54,310 --> 01:42:52,969
do but no I think you've absolutely

2441
01:42:56,440 --> 01:42:54,320
points I have a

2442
01:43:01,510 --> 01:42:56,450
take on Trump than you do but I do

2443
01:43:04,500 --> 01:43:01,520
believe absolutely that the divisive

2444
01:43:06,730 --> 01:43:04,510
Ness is something that's that's

2445
01:43:07,660 --> 01:43:06,740
definitely played up in this is

2446
01:43:09,010 --> 01:43:07,670
something by the way that the United

2447
01:43:11,200 --> 01:43:09,020
States intelligence community is the

2448
01:43:12,910 --> 01:43:11,210
master of doing around the world but

2449
01:43:15,070 --> 01:43:12,920
through I'm called color revolutions and

2450
01:43:16,870 --> 01:43:15,080
what we're now seeing is that that model

2451
01:43:20,010 --> 01:43:16,880
is almost being is being brought back

2452
01:43:24,880 --> 01:43:20,020
here to the United States way of

2453
01:43:27,340 --> 01:43:24,890
emphasizing cultural or linguistic or

2454
01:43:31,210 --> 01:43:27,350
ideological differences to divide people

2455
01:43:34,320 --> 01:43:31,220
so that's definitely happening yeah I

2456
01:43:37,060 --> 01:43:34,330
look at Trump a little differently than

2457
01:43:41,620 --> 01:43:37,070
some of my very like left-leaning

2458
01:43:43,840 --> 01:43:41,630
friends look at him but I I mean he's

2459
01:43:46,110 --> 01:43:43,850
not Jesus and he's not Hitler 2.0 like I

2460
01:43:50,800 --> 01:43:46,120
don't I don't either of those extremes

2461
01:43:53,620 --> 01:43:50,810
he's he's a self-serving politician who

2462
01:43:55,480 --> 01:43:53,630
probably didn't even expect to run for

2463
01:43:57,280 --> 01:43:55,490
president like I think I think he did it

2464
01:43:59,710 --> 01:43:57,290
from from I've heard different to

2465
01:44:02,890 --> 01:43:59,720
sources he did it basically to increase

2466
01:44:06,150 --> 01:44:02,900
his brand his personal brand but I

2467
01:44:10,390 --> 01:44:06,160
actually don't believe that he was the

2468
01:44:11,950 --> 01:44:10,400
tool of of the elites I think that would

2469
01:44:13,600 --> 01:44:11,960
have for the Republican Party I would

2470
01:44:16,330 --> 01:44:13,610
have thought Jeb Bush would have been

2471
01:44:19,510 --> 01:44:16,340
much more amenable I mean that the kind

2472
01:44:23,800 --> 01:44:19,520
of a the straight-up neocon globalist

2473
01:44:25,930 --> 01:44:23,810
type of model which has had for for many

2474
01:44:28,360 --> 01:44:25,940
many generations Democrat and Republican

2475
01:44:30,810 --> 01:44:28,370
both fulfilled that and and Trump kind

2476
01:44:33,700 --> 01:44:30,820
of didn't as a candidate he was actually

2477
01:44:35,350 --> 01:44:33,710
you know he was a candidate he was truly

2478
01:44:36,760 --> 01:44:35,360
outsider well I'm gonna push this just a

2479
01:44:38,320 --> 01:44:36,770
tiny bit further and we're gonna wrap it

2480
01:44:41,770 --> 01:44:38,330
up cuz you've been super generous with

2481
01:44:43,780 --> 01:44:41,780
your time well I'm a political the

2482
01:44:45,700 --> 01:44:43,790
political analyst in you one thing I've

2483
01:44:48,730 --> 01:44:45,710
always kind of thrown out there is that

2484
01:44:52,360 --> 01:44:48,740
I think we we can go down the wrong path

2485
01:44:55,060 --> 01:44:52,370
if we understand these maneuvers as

2486
01:44:57,940 --> 01:44:55,070
being proactive versus reactive in a lot

2487
01:44:59,950 --> 01:44:57,950
of cases so it's not like somebody is

2488
01:45:01,480 --> 01:44:59,960
working this is my take and I want to

2489
01:45:02,860 --> 01:45:01,490
give your opinion of it it's not like

2490
01:45:04,960 --> 01:45:02,870
someone is running a grand chessboard

2491
01:45:07,509 --> 01:45:04,970
it's more like they're letting the game

2492
01:45:09,100 --> 01:45:07,519
kind of play out a little bit Iran Oh

2493
01:45:10,660 --> 01:45:09,110
what's our next move from here they're

2494
01:45:12,970 --> 01:45:10,670
like jumping into somebody else's game

2495
01:45:14,229 --> 01:45:12,980
that plays out and the same thing like

2496
01:45:16,270 --> 01:45:14,239
you mentioned at the very beginning the

2497
01:45:18,279 --> 01:45:16,280
show disclosure they don't know which

2498
01:45:20,080 --> 01:45:18,289
way disclosures I don't know if time to

2499
01:45:22,209 --> 01:45:20,090
long if it's gonna hit but once it does

2500
01:45:24,009 --> 01:45:22,219
Oh what do we do with this oh you know

2501
01:45:25,689 --> 01:45:24,019
what we can do this with it we can do

2502
01:45:27,040 --> 01:45:25,699
that with it I don't know I agree with

2503
01:45:28,720 --> 01:45:27,050
you I think that's right I think it's

2504
01:45:32,830 --> 01:45:28,730
there's a lot of reactivity I'm glad you

2505
01:45:36,399 --> 01:45:32,840
brought this up I don't I don't believe

2506
01:45:38,049 --> 01:45:36,409
that I don't think there's like a

2507
01:45:39,489 --> 01:45:38,059
50-year plan on this I don't think

2508
01:45:40,899 --> 01:45:39,499
there's even a ten-year plan on this but

2509
01:45:45,189 --> 01:45:40,909
I do think that there are contingencies

2510
01:45:48,310 --> 01:45:45,199
that are in place and for example in

2511
01:45:50,020 --> 01:45:48,320
terms of disclosure what I would what I

2512
01:45:52,209 --> 01:45:50,030
would argue I've been saying this for a

2513
01:45:54,520 --> 01:45:52,219
while now especially like the last six

2514
01:45:56,290 --> 01:45:54,530
months where my take on this has really

2515
01:45:57,910 --> 01:45:56,300
crystallize a little bit more I think

2516
01:46:01,959 --> 01:45:57,920
what we're seeing are factions within

2517
01:46:04,839 --> 01:46:01,969
the elite groups so there is probably a

2518
01:46:06,669 --> 01:46:04,849
disclosure friendly faction and there's

2519
01:46:12,129 --> 01:46:06,679
definitely a disclosure unfriendly

2520
01:46:13,689 --> 01:46:12,139
faction and I think that TTS a is caught

2521
01:46:15,189 --> 01:46:13,699
like they're right and they're in the

2522
01:46:17,859 --> 01:46:15,199
midst of that they've got a couple of

2523
01:46:19,180 --> 01:46:17,869
people on their side within you say the

2524
01:46:20,470 --> 01:46:19,190
deep state that are helping that and

2525
01:46:22,810 --> 01:46:20,480
they have enemies they've got lots of

2526
01:46:24,640 --> 01:46:22,820
enemies in there as well think of it

2527
01:46:27,609 --> 01:46:24,650
this way like they we know that there's

2528
01:46:29,589 --> 01:46:27,619
at least six not just three videos but

2529
01:46:32,049 --> 01:46:29,599
at least six videos and probably more

2530
01:46:34,120 --> 01:46:32,059
that they know about that they have not

2531
01:46:36,189 --> 01:46:34,130
been able to get all those other ones

2532
01:46:37,689 --> 01:46:36,199
Declassified they got three Declassified

2533
01:46:41,379 --> 01:46:37,699
a couple of years ago and that's it they

2534
01:46:43,209 --> 01:46:41,389
have gotten nothing ever since and it

2535
01:46:46,930 --> 01:46:43,219
seems that Elizondo got a lot of that

2536
01:46:49,899 --> 01:46:46,940
stuff released through somewhat

2537
01:46:52,120 --> 01:46:49,909
deceptive means John Greenwald done some

2538
01:46:54,189 --> 01:46:52,130
research on this and uses that to

2539
01:46:56,140 --> 01:46:54,199
criticize Elizondo from some of these

2540
01:46:58,359 --> 01:46:56,150
emails in 2017 what I would say is

2541
01:47:01,479 --> 01:46:58,369
Elizondo was just being a little weasel

2542
01:47:04,689 --> 01:47:01,489
wording with what these videos were not

2543
01:47:07,450 --> 01:47:04,699
describing them as UFOs or UAP in order

2544
01:47:08,560 --> 01:47:07,460
to get them cleared I think the people

2545
01:47:11,500 --> 01:47:08,570
in the Pentagon who cleared them

2546
01:47:14,410 --> 01:47:11,510
probably didn't fully realize what they

2547
01:47:15,759 --> 01:47:14,420
were clearing and so then they were

2548
01:47:18,910 --> 01:47:15,769
cleared and the damage was done they

2549
01:47:20,410 --> 01:47:18,920
weren't supposed to be cleared that

2550
01:47:22,450 --> 01:47:20,420
I give him credit for frankly I think

2551
01:47:23,500 --> 01:47:22,460
that's a kind of a smooth move but I

2552
01:47:25,660 --> 01:47:23,510
don't think that's gonna happen anymore

2553
01:47:26,770 --> 01:47:25,670
so I think the gig is up for them and I

2554
01:47:31,600 --> 01:47:26,780
don't think they're gonna get anything

2555
01:47:33,340 --> 01:47:31,610
else cleared but but so I think they're

2556
01:47:36,370 --> 01:47:33,350
fighting their own little game here and

2557
01:47:40,150 --> 01:47:36,380
I don't it's not a CIA I don't care how

2558
01:47:42,310 --> 01:47:40,160
many times some randoms you just you

2559
01:47:45,970 --> 01:47:42,320
just laid you just laid an awesome

2560
01:47:48,160 --> 01:47:45,980
classic little Dolan factoid there that

2561
01:47:50,410 --> 01:47:48,170
fits into the puzzle and it kind of

2562
01:47:53,350 --> 01:47:50,420
turns it in a way and I commend you for

2563
01:47:57,520 --> 01:47:53,360
that but you know come on Richard it is

2564
01:48:00,670 --> 01:47:57,530
all a PSYOP it's just all what because

2565
01:48:03,040 --> 01:48:00,680
why exactly because it all gave a

2566
01:48:05,170 --> 01:48:03,050
presentation it all depends on what you

2567
01:48:06,430 --> 01:48:05,180
define as high up because we had this

2568
01:48:08,200 --> 01:48:06,440
like pre-interview this is a good

2569
01:48:09,670 --> 01:48:08,210
roundup will come full circle we have

2570
01:48:12,940 --> 01:48:09,680
this this pre-interview thing and you're

2571
01:48:14,680 --> 01:48:12,950
like hey man Alex don't push that SIOP

2572
01:48:22,540 --> 01:48:14,690
narrative on me it just doesn't fit in

2573
01:48:25,450 --> 01:48:22,550
this case which I out then then you've

2574
01:48:27,450 --> 01:48:25,460
got it here's the point here's my point

2575
01:48:30,070 --> 01:48:27,460
then I listened to your disclosure

2576
01:48:33,520 --> 01:48:30,080
presentation in Copenhagen and I'm like

2577
01:48:35,440 --> 01:48:33,530
oh no we don't and I are in the total on

2578
01:48:37,270 --> 01:48:35,450
the same page in this you know this is

2579
01:48:40,120 --> 01:48:37,280
manipulated this is done for a purpose

2580
01:48:42,160 --> 01:48:40,130
this is purposely done to you know get

2581
01:48:44,530 --> 01:48:42,170
this reaction now so it all comes down

2582
01:48:46,810 --> 01:48:44,540
to what you define as a PSYOP and I

2583
01:48:48,690 --> 01:48:46,820
think you put it in very stark terms at

2584
01:48:52,450 --> 01:48:48,700
the beginning reason we're a post

2585
01:48:55,690 --> 01:48:52,460
democracy post Constitution well [\h__\h] in

2586
01:48:57,520 --> 01:48:55,700
that and now then everything is a PSYOP

2587
01:49:00,730 --> 01:48:57,530
is it means to control to manipulate

2588
01:49:06,070 --> 01:49:00,740
something so really okay so I guess yes

2589
01:49:08,170 --> 01:49:06,080
to that but whose SIOP so is is TTS a

2590
01:49:10,420 --> 01:49:08,180
doing a PSYOP do we just want to call

2591
01:49:12,220 --> 01:49:10,430
that a sigh up if we do then we're kind

2592
01:49:14,080 --> 01:49:12,230
of losing the meaning of the of the word

2593
01:49:19,480 --> 01:49:14,090
they've got their own spin

2594
01:49:24,070 --> 01:49:19,490
yes Peter lavinda Peter lavinda psyops

2595
01:49:26,740 --> 01:49:24,080
psyops I up why like why because I know

2596
01:49:30,280 --> 01:49:26,750
Peter I've spent years I don't know

2597
01:49:32,859 --> 01:49:30,290
Peter directly but to me he's kind of

2598
01:49:37,120 --> 01:49:32,869
come out as saying lifelong player

2599
01:49:39,070 --> 01:49:37,130
lifelong spook associated with that and

2600
01:49:41,200 --> 01:49:39,080
his story just doesn't wash his idea of

2601
01:49:43,540 --> 01:49:41,210
you know that the whole thing about my I

2602
01:49:45,189 --> 01:49:43,550
met Tom DeLonge I didn't know as him and

2603
01:49:47,500 --> 01:49:45,199
we got together and said we have to blow

2604
01:49:49,629 --> 01:49:47,510
the lid off this the only place we can

2605
01:49:51,459 --> 01:49:49,639
go is the CIA it just it just doesn't

2606
01:49:54,160 --> 01:49:51,469
ring true but I've digressed there

2607
01:49:55,479 --> 01:49:54,170
because you you don't have to agree with

2608
01:49:58,660 --> 01:49:55,489
that no one has to agree with that just

2609
01:50:02,050 --> 01:49:58,670
sounds very very suspicious well okay

2610
01:50:04,180 --> 01:50:02,060
but what no one has ever done the only

2611
01:50:05,680 --> 01:50:04,190
thesis I've ever heard from anyone who

2612
01:50:07,359 --> 01:50:05,690
says that this is a sia

2613
01:50:12,370 --> 01:50:07,369
particularly an intelligence community

2614
01:50:15,250 --> 01:50:12,380
siop is for the reason of amplifying

2615
01:50:18,550 --> 01:50:15,260
fear by talking about a threat a threat

2616
01:50:20,320 --> 01:50:18,560
from these UAP Elizondo does say that

2617
01:50:22,419 --> 01:50:20,330
quite a lot he loves that word threat on

2618
01:50:24,790 --> 01:50:22,429
the TV show unidentified he loves the

2619
01:50:26,800 --> 01:50:24,800
word for it or potential threat he does

2620
01:50:28,629 --> 01:50:26,810
it all the time and so that the idea is

2621
01:50:32,290 --> 01:50:28,639
in that they're using this threat

2622
01:50:33,399 --> 01:50:32,300
narrative to frighten the public and you

2623
01:50:36,430 --> 01:50:33,409
know tape and take your pick

2624
01:50:40,330 --> 01:50:36,440
increase defense spending for what to

2625
01:50:42,010 --> 01:50:40,340
protect against aliens or to do the UFO

2626
01:50:43,930 --> 01:50:42,020
alien reveal and scare the [\h__\h] out of

2627
01:50:45,700 --> 01:50:43,940
people so that they come running to the

2628
01:50:48,700 --> 01:50:45,710
state for good like that's basically the

2629
01:50:51,339 --> 01:50:48,710
thesis and I just I'm not persuaded by

2630
01:50:53,140 --> 01:50:51,349
that at all not even remotely when

2631
01:50:54,820 --> 01:50:53,150
Elizondo is talking about a threat I

2632
01:50:56,680 --> 01:50:54,830
feel like I'm reading my first two

2633
01:50:59,140 --> 01:50:56,690
volumes of UFOs international security

2634
01:51:01,209 --> 01:50:59,150
state it's got the exact same what did I

2635
01:51:03,760 --> 01:51:01,219
do in those books I focused on military

2636
01:51:06,550 --> 01:51:03,770
encounters with unknown objects that

2637
01:51:08,680 --> 01:51:06,560
were indeed seen as a potential threat

2638
01:51:10,570 --> 01:51:08,690
when you have unknown objects hanging

2639
01:51:12,580 --> 01:51:10,580
out over sensitive nuclear installations

2640
01:51:14,919 --> 01:51:12,590
that are not supposed to be there where

2641
01:51:17,020 --> 01:51:14,929
aircraft go to intercept and they zip

2642
01:51:19,959 --> 01:51:17,030
off and do their thing well well what's

2643
01:51:22,180 --> 01:51:19,969
that supposed to be like any reasonable

2644
01:51:24,970 --> 01:51:22,190
person responsible for air defense will

2645
01:51:27,459 --> 01:51:24,980
have to consider that at least a

2646
01:51:30,879 --> 01:51:27,469
potential threat the reason I focused on

2647
01:51:33,160 --> 01:51:30,889
those in my books is for several reasons

2648
01:51:35,680 --> 01:51:33,170
one because they have a paper trail

2649
01:51:37,120 --> 01:51:35,690
which is important to they prove the US

2650
01:51:39,970 --> 01:51:37,130
government's lying about its lack of

2651
01:51:41,350 --> 01:51:39,980
interest in UFOs but three the fact that

2652
01:51:43,300 --> 01:51:41,360
you've got these military encounters

2653
01:51:44,709 --> 01:51:43,310
it's like almost a way of shaking the

2654
01:51:46,259 --> 01:51:44,719
public and getting their attention it's

2655
01:51:47,819 --> 01:51:46,269
like you're not even looking at

2656
01:51:49,379 --> 01:51:47,829
those you don't give a [\h__\h] about you of

2657
01:51:51,689 --> 01:51:49,389
those you're not talking about it but

2658
01:51:55,259 --> 01:51:51,699
take a look you're military is being

2659
01:51:56,989 --> 01:51:55,269
baffled by these again and again so I

2660
01:52:00,529 --> 01:51:56,999
don't think it's an illegitimate

2661
01:52:05,759 --> 01:52:00,539
approach I think I do think you can

2662
01:52:09,419 --> 01:52:05,769
overplay it absolutely but but my take

2663
01:52:13,919 --> 01:52:09,429
on why they bring up the threat there

2664
01:52:15,899 --> 01:52:13,929
they are desperate TDS a is at a point

2665
01:52:19,169 --> 01:52:15,909
of desperation right now that people

2666
01:52:21,239 --> 01:52:19,179
don't even see this all right they can't

2667
01:52:23,220 --> 01:52:21,249
get Congress to do inquiry they had that

2668
01:52:24,569 --> 01:52:23,230
of a congressional briefing well that's

2669
01:52:26,609 --> 01:52:24,579
good but they haven't gone any further

2670
01:52:28,649 --> 01:52:26,619
as far as anyone can tell they're not

2671
01:52:32,339 --> 01:52:28,659
getting they get a little bit of press

2672
01:52:34,770 --> 01:52:32,349
follow up some Trump White House isn't

2673
01:52:37,140 --> 01:52:34,780
doing squat as far as we know you can

2674
01:52:39,930 --> 01:52:37,150
see like these guys are doing everything

2675
01:52:43,319 --> 01:52:39,940
they can do to say hey pay attention we

2676
01:52:46,770 --> 01:52:43,329
got a threat here which okay maybe it's

2677
01:52:49,950 --> 01:52:46,780
a tactic it's not an that's the Seban

2678
01:52:53,819 --> 01:52:49,960
little cool battle it's absolutely is it

2679
01:52:56,549 --> 01:52:53,829
a PSYOP I don't I think if someone's

2680
01:52:58,109 --> 01:52:56,559
gonna argue that what T TSA is doing is

2681
01:52:59,430 --> 01:52:58,119
a silent they had got to come up with a

2682
01:53:03,750 --> 01:52:59,440
better argument than what I've heard so

2683
01:53:06,029 --> 01:53:03,760
far like CIA like one one initial talk

2684
01:53:08,520 --> 01:53:06,039
about the volume but when you're turning

2685
01:53:11,040 --> 01:53:08,530
up the volume on the threat man you're

2686
01:53:13,770 --> 01:53:11,050
turning up the volume on the global

2687
01:53:17,370 --> 01:53:13,780
issue which is the other card they're

2688
01:53:19,140 --> 01:53:17,380
playing you know we can call it

2689
01:53:21,540 --> 01:53:19,150
different terms but number one it's

2690
01:53:23,790 --> 01:53:21,550
political like you just said anyone who

2691
01:53:25,500 --> 01:53:23,800
doesn't see it as a political thing it

2692
01:53:27,959 --> 01:53:25,510
is political there's this guy who sits

2693
01:53:29,430 --> 01:53:27,969
in the White House right now and I can't

2694
01:53:31,200 --> 01:53:29,440
get over when I hear these conversations

2695
01:53:33,239 --> 01:53:31,210
and no one ever you you're talking about

2696
01:53:35,609 --> 01:53:33,249
Trump you know and I'm not saying I'm

2697
01:53:37,500 --> 01:53:35,619
Pro Trump or against Trump but you can't

2698
01:53:39,629 --> 01:53:37,510
have this conversation and not talk like

2699
01:53:41,399 --> 01:53:39,639
there isn't another side to this there

2700
01:53:43,410 --> 01:53:41,409
isn't another group you know and often

2701
01:53:44,729 --> 01:53:43,420
that's kind of a conversation like we're

2702
01:53:46,649 --> 01:53:44,739
just going to kind of carry on like so

2703
01:53:48,239 --> 01:53:46,659
what's that so number one that's it so

2704
01:53:51,000 --> 01:53:48,249
the globalization thing and the threat

2705
01:53:56,770 --> 01:53:51,010
thing to me when you're turning up the

2706
01:54:01,200 --> 01:53:58,240
it depends on how you want to define it

2707
01:54:03,490 --> 01:54:01,210
was a PSYOP is to me a PSYOP is

2708
01:54:04,600 --> 01:54:03,500
explicitly something that I would

2709
01:54:07,660 --> 01:54:04,610
associate with the intelligence

2710
01:54:10,750 --> 01:54:07,670
community manipulating public opinion

2711
01:54:11,649 --> 01:54:10,760
through the media for a particular end

2712
01:54:13,839 --> 01:54:11,659
or goal

2713
01:54:15,939 --> 01:54:13,849
like that's classically you know

2714
01:54:19,029 --> 01:54:15,949
operation mockingbirds or had all of its

2715
01:54:22,240 --> 01:54:19,039
decades of operation and media control

2716
01:54:24,370 --> 01:54:22,250
which we all know is reality

2717
01:54:25,959 --> 01:54:24,380
those are psyops psyops can be done

2718
01:54:30,339 --> 01:54:25,969
against domestic populations they can be

2719
01:54:32,859 --> 01:54:30,349
done against foreign populations it's a

2720
01:54:34,060 --> 01:54:32,869
form of hybrid warfare which the u.s.

2721
01:54:35,799 --> 01:54:34,070
loves to say that the russians are

2722
01:54:38,740 --> 01:54:35,809
masters at but the u.s. itself is the

2723
01:54:42,490 --> 01:54:38,750
master of hybrid warfare so if i look at

2724
01:54:44,950 --> 01:54:42,500
TT SAS operation as a PSYOP some ones

2725
01:54:46,750 --> 01:54:44,960
that have to provide some reasonable

2726
01:54:48,370 --> 01:54:46,760
evidence more than the fact of saying

2727
01:54:51,160 --> 01:54:48,380
well some of these people are ex-cia

2728
01:54:55,899 --> 01:54:51,170
like that's sorry like that's a weak

2729
01:54:59,410 --> 01:54:55,909
argument that's a weak argument we're at

2730
01:55:03,700 --> 01:54:59,420
a point in in our world that I've it's

2731
01:55:07,029 --> 01:55:03,710
disturbing to me that it's almost like

2732
01:55:10,750 --> 01:55:07,039
post-modernism has invaded ufology to

2733
01:55:14,200 --> 01:55:10,760
this extent where we are now arguing

2734
01:55:16,569 --> 01:55:14,210
over someone's bona fides and what we

2735
01:55:18,069 --> 01:55:16,579
think they mean rather than listening to

2736
01:55:20,529 --> 01:55:18,079
the damn words that are coming out of

2737
01:55:24,850 --> 01:55:20,539
their mouths like we're I don't find a

2738
01:55:26,649 --> 01:55:24,860
lot of people listening to very smart

2739
01:55:28,359 --> 01:55:26,659
articles by chris mellon for example

2740
01:55:30,010 --> 01:55:28,369
that he's had on the hill and he's had

2741
01:55:32,200 --> 01:55:30,020
in other places on their website in fact

2742
01:55:33,970 --> 01:55:32,210
the tds a site he's put some very

2743
01:55:36,129 --> 01:55:33,980
interesting information on there

2744
01:55:37,930 --> 01:55:36,139
instead what people are doing is they're

2745
01:55:41,020 --> 01:55:37,940
they think they're smart enough to

2746
01:55:42,459 --> 01:55:41,030
analyze behind his words into his true

2747
01:55:44,439 --> 01:55:42,469
motivations whatever they think that

2748
01:55:46,899 --> 01:55:44,449
those are that's postmodern in my view

2749
01:55:48,669 --> 01:55:46,909
that's like taking critical analysis to

2750
01:55:50,560 --> 01:55:48,679
such an extreme that you're actually not

2751
01:55:53,020 --> 01:55:50,570
listening to the other person what

2752
01:55:55,419 --> 01:55:53,030
they're actually saying to me the most

2753
01:55:58,450 --> 01:55:55,429
important thing is actually listening to

2754
01:56:00,189 --> 01:55:58,460
what is being said in to listening to

2755
01:56:02,470 --> 01:56:00,199
what the information that is being

2756
01:56:05,740 --> 01:56:02,480
provided that's vastly more important

2757
01:56:07,660 --> 01:56:05,750
than all these people who think oh yeah

2758
01:56:09,430 --> 01:56:07,670
i know what they're trying to do

2759
01:56:11,169 --> 01:56:09,440
it's like stop that stop embarrassing

2760
01:56:13,180 --> 01:56:11,179
yourself and stop embarrassing the rest

2761
01:56:15,970 --> 01:56:13,190
of us by thinking you know what

2762
01:56:18,669 --> 01:56:15,980
everyone's motivation is and just listen

2763
01:56:21,970 --> 01:56:18,679
like what they have provided for the

2764
01:56:24,340 --> 01:56:21,980
past to whatever years is a shitload of

2765
01:56:25,000 --> 01:56:24,350
information that no one else has put out

2766
01:56:28,810 --> 01:56:25,010
there yet

2767
01:56:31,629 --> 01:56:28,820
like that's the fact they they and they

2768
01:56:34,689 --> 01:56:31,639
alone are responsible for nearly all of

2769
01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:34,699
the US Navy's admissions they've been

2770
01:56:41,050 --> 01:56:38,080
pushing that they are responsible for

2771
01:56:44,020 --> 01:56:41,060
like all those New York Times piece is

2772
01:56:46,000 --> 01:56:44,030
that yes the New York Times is the

2773
01:56:47,859 --> 01:56:46,010
mouthpiece of the establishment but the

2774
01:56:50,560 --> 01:56:47,869
fact is when the New York Times

2775
01:56:53,950 --> 01:56:50,570
publishes halfway decent articles and

2776
01:56:56,189 --> 01:56:53,960
UFOs which they did last May in 2019 on

2777
01:56:58,359 --> 01:56:56,199
the USS Roosevelt like that was actually

2778
01:57:01,419 --> 01:56:58,369
that was a decent piece of journalism

2779
01:57:06,340 --> 01:57:01,429
that Leslie and Helene Cooper and Ralph

2780
01:57:08,649 --> 01:57:06,350
Blumenthal did that's TTS a getting that

2781
01:57:11,550 --> 01:57:08,659
information out there like they are

2782
01:57:13,359 --> 01:57:11,560
intimately involved in that so those are

2783
01:57:17,439 --> 01:57:13,369
significant things that they have done

2784
01:57:19,090 --> 01:57:17,449
and it I find a disheartening like the

2785
01:57:21,220 --> 01:57:19,100
day is gonna come when they're gone they

2786
01:57:22,689 --> 01:57:21,230
don't exist and they've broken up and

2787
01:57:25,450 --> 01:57:22,699
and we're gonna look back and think wow

2788
01:57:29,050 --> 01:57:25,460
we treated them really shitty well they

2789
01:57:30,280 --> 01:57:29,060
were out there working and trying to

2790
01:57:31,840 --> 01:57:30,290
move the ball a little bit down the

2791
01:57:34,270 --> 01:57:31,850
field that's what I think is gonna

2792
01:57:36,669 --> 01:57:34,280
happen you know that's an awesome take

2793
01:57:39,669 --> 01:57:36,679
and I'm gonna wrap things up here but I

2794
01:57:41,830 --> 01:57:39,679
want to draw people's attention to again

2795
01:57:44,080 --> 01:57:41,840
the if you're interested in that last

2796
01:57:46,479 --> 01:57:44,090
part of this discussion the presentation

2797
01:57:49,000 --> 01:57:46,489
you did on Copa in Copenhagen because

2798
01:57:51,459 --> 01:57:49,010
you lay out in a very retro and

2799
01:57:52,720 --> 01:57:51,469
systematic way one after another and one

2800
01:57:56,740 --> 01:57:52,730
little thing I was going to pick up on

2801
01:57:58,990 --> 01:57:56,750
is you trace document and support the

2802
01:58:01,540 --> 01:57:59,000
idea that that was the beginning of the

2803
01:58:05,020 --> 01:58:01,550
disclosure movement and then I think you

2804
01:58:06,520 --> 01:58:05,030
gravy on it in a very you know everyone

2805
01:58:09,100 --> 01:58:06,530
stops the New York Times like I do I

2806
01:58:11,169 --> 01:58:09,110
stop at the New York Times ago I did you

2807
01:58:13,990 --> 01:58:11,179
go no wait that's the beginning then

2808
01:58:15,669 --> 01:58:14,000
look at it look at look at the next

2809
01:58:17,410 --> 01:58:15,679
article that Leslie Leslie came

2810
01:58:20,350 --> 01:58:17,420
publishes look at this one look at this

2811
01:58:20,830 --> 01:58:20,360
one very you can't argue with that

2812
01:58:23,320 --> 01:58:20,840
because

2813
01:58:25,120 --> 01:58:23,330
do let me say this this is me

2814
01:58:27,339 --> 01:58:25,130
contradicting myself again I I mean I

2815
01:58:29,020 --> 01:58:27,349
said we're not in a disclosure era

2816
01:58:32,320 --> 01:58:29,030
because it's not a government promoted

2817
01:58:34,290 --> 01:58:32,330
thing but I'll share with you something

2818
01:58:42,399 --> 01:58:34,300
that putt-off said to me in an email

2819
01:58:44,260 --> 01:58:42,409
earlier this year and you know he talked

2820
01:58:45,459 --> 01:58:44,270
I'm talking about I'm trying to remember

2821
01:58:48,430 --> 01:58:45,469
exactly what I asked him

2822
01:58:52,990 --> 01:58:48,440
oh this was in connection to the Wilson

2823
01:58:54,520 --> 01:58:53,000
league but he used the phrase with me so

2824
01:58:57,040 --> 01:58:54,530
yeah it's just more toothpaste out of

2825
01:59:00,339 --> 01:58:57,050
the tube and I've been using that phrase

2826
01:59:03,550 --> 01:59:00,349
for this year it's a really I proposed

2827
01:59:07,660 --> 01:59:03,560
statement it's what's happening is with

2828
01:59:08,830 --> 01:59:07,670
disclosure with the disclosures of these

2829
01:59:10,419 --> 01:59:08,840
various things that have been happening

2830
01:59:15,129 --> 01:59:10,429
it's more toothpaste out of the tube

2831
01:59:17,439 --> 01:59:15,139
it's not going back in and so now we're

2832
01:59:20,830 --> 01:59:17,449
at a point where there's a bit of

2833
01:59:21,640 --> 01:59:20,840
momentum for the first time in our

2834
01:59:25,200 --> 01:59:21,650
lifetimes

2835
01:59:28,780 --> 01:59:25,210
for the UFO subject actually to get a

2836
01:59:31,510 --> 01:59:28,790
little bit more and better coverage in

2837
01:59:33,760 --> 01:59:31,520
our official mainstream yes totally

2838
01:59:35,560 --> 01:59:33,770
corrupt corporate dominated media but

2839
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:35,570
nonetheless is getting more coverage

2840
01:59:41,229 --> 01:59:40,130
that's very significant so the question

2841
01:59:43,300 --> 01:59:41,239
and that you're seeing like there's

2842
01:59:45,100 --> 01:59:43,310
media people I mean some people have

2843
01:59:46,750 --> 01:59:45,110
very strong opinions about Fox but

2844
01:59:50,979 --> 01:59:46,760
there's Tucker Carlson who's actually

2845
01:59:52,209 --> 01:59:50,989
doing superb journalism on UFO compared

2846
01:59:55,899 --> 01:59:52,219
with any other person out in the

2847
01:59:57,220 --> 01:59:55,909
mainstream like this guy seriously has

2848
02:00:00,240 --> 01:59:57,230
said some courageous things about this

2849
02:00:03,339 --> 02:00:00,250
and he's done some good work on this so

2850
02:00:06,780 --> 02:00:03,349
there is definitely momentum happening

2851
02:00:09,220 --> 02:00:06,790
the only question is how far will it go

2852
02:00:12,280 --> 02:00:09,230
but the problem that I just see here is

2853
02:00:14,200 --> 02:00:12,290
I like the the analogy of the

2854
02:00:16,450 --> 02:00:14,210
irresistible force versus here in

2855
02:00:20,169 --> 02:00:16,460
movable object so the disclosure

2856
02:00:23,290 --> 02:00:20,179
movement is is in possibly becoming an

2857
02:00:25,450 --> 02:00:23,300
irresistible force but secrecy is that

2858
02:00:27,520 --> 02:00:25,460
immovable object and and one one thing

2859
02:00:29,220 --> 02:00:27,530
you learn when you study the Eric Davis

2860
02:00:33,960 --> 02:00:29,230
notes on amber the Admiral Wilson

2861
02:00:35,520 --> 02:00:33,970
you is just how deep how privatized and

2862
02:00:37,260 --> 02:00:35,530
how deep and how secret a lot of this

2863
02:00:41,310 --> 02:00:37,270
you have a secret is and how difficult

2864
02:00:43,229 --> 02:00:41,320
it will be to get this pulled out into

2865
02:00:45,479 --> 02:00:43,239
the light of day I don't know how that's

2866
02:00:47,070 --> 02:00:45,489
going to work out you know DeLong last

2867
02:00:48,860 --> 02:00:47,080
summer dropped a couple of our

2868
02:00:51,479 --> 02:00:48,870
interesting tweets about this and people

2869
02:00:53,970 --> 02:00:51,489
love to laugh and dismiss this guy but

2870
02:00:56,760 --> 02:00:53,980
he said a couple of smart things and one

2871
02:00:58,800 --> 02:00:56,770
of the things had to do with he said you

2872
02:01:01,260 --> 02:00:58,810
think a tip was the whole the whole

2873
02:01:03,120 --> 02:01:01,270
program is and think again we're not

2874
02:01:05,130 --> 02:01:03,130
talking tens of millions it says try

2875
02:01:07,140 --> 02:01:05,140
hundreds of millions of dollars and I'm

2876
02:01:09,060 --> 02:01:07,150
guessing it's more than that but the

2877
02:01:11,010 --> 02:01:09,070
other thing he said is if you really

2878
02:01:14,670 --> 02:01:11,020
want to end this secrecy you need a

2879
02:01:18,210 --> 02:01:14,680
fundamental legal revolution and I think

2880
02:01:20,670 --> 02:01:18,220
that's right like the legality of this

2881
02:01:24,570 --> 02:01:20,680
illegal business has got to change

2882
02:01:27,270 --> 02:01:24,580
somehow and how to change it like this

2883
02:01:30,320 --> 02:01:27,280
is a serious issue like the only thing

2884
02:01:33,930 --> 02:01:30,330
that I can see is when enough people

2885
02:01:34,979 --> 02:01:33,940
when the culture changes like the only

2886
02:01:36,780 --> 02:01:34,989
way it's going to happen is if the

2887
02:01:39,330 --> 02:01:36,790
culture changes sufficiently so that

2888
02:01:40,770 --> 02:01:39,340
enough people realize like this is

2889
02:01:46,350 --> 02:01:40,780
really important we've got to do

2890
02:01:48,920 --> 02:01:46,360
something and and then when a lot more

2891
02:01:51,479 --> 02:01:48,930
brains and ours are looking at this

2892
02:01:56,280 --> 02:01:51,489
talking about this and there's actual

2893
02:01:59,130 --> 02:01:56,290
pressure to open this up and then and

2894
02:02:02,130 --> 02:01:59,140
only then and maybe only then will we

2895
02:02:04,020 --> 02:02:02,140
have a chance that my big hope on when

2896
02:02:09,630 --> 02:02:04,030
with Bryce I wrote after disclosure a

2897
02:02:11,540 --> 02:02:09,640
decade ago was I thought something big

2898
02:02:13,950 --> 02:02:11,550
could happen we're in an unstable

2899
02:02:14,850 --> 02:02:13,960
civilization where there's WikiLeaks and

2900
02:02:16,110 --> 02:02:14,860
there's all these other leads and

2901
02:02:18,120 --> 02:02:16,120
there's all these everyone's got a

2902
02:02:20,610 --> 02:02:18,130
camcorder or their phones got video and

2903
02:02:22,350 --> 02:02:20,620
like I envisioned like there could be a

2904
02:02:24,930 --> 02:02:22,360
big event that would happen that would

2905
02:02:27,420 --> 02:02:24,940
cause like an avalanche and that

2906
02:02:32,460 --> 02:02:27,430
avalanche hasn't happened what we are

2907
02:02:35,580 --> 02:02:32,470
seeing though is drip drip drip drip and

2908
02:02:37,850 --> 02:02:35,590
it's becoming significant and I'm

2909
02:02:41,940 --> 02:02:37,860
waiting for that avalanche like I think

2910
02:02:42,459 --> 02:02:41,950
that's still likely when we get to a

2911
02:02:43,479 --> 02:02:42,469
certain crit

2912
02:02:45,879 --> 02:02:43,489
go mess and I don't know what that

2913
02:02:50,560 --> 02:02:45,889
critical mass is I don't know how that

2914
02:02:54,640 --> 02:02:50,570
will be that is such an awesome leader

2915
02:02:57,339 --> 02:02:54,650
onst response throughout this interview

2916
02:02:59,529 --> 02:02:57,349
that is that is classic Richard Dolan I

2917
02:03:01,750 --> 02:02:59,539
don't know if you've totally picked me

2918
02:03:03,759 --> 02:03:01,760
up and turned me around but you kind of

2919
02:03:06,000 --> 02:03:03,769
maybe turn me around a little bit maybe

2920
02:03:08,739 --> 02:03:06,010
a few things as well unconsciousness

2921
02:03:10,779 --> 02:03:08,749
it's like a really fun little

2922
02:03:14,439 --> 02:03:10,789
intellectual wrestling match that we

2923
02:03:15,910 --> 02:03:14,449
just had here and there's no wrestling

2924
02:03:18,580 --> 02:03:15,920
with you man you're the year that you're

2925
02:03:22,239 --> 02:03:18,590
the boss you're the boss jujitsu dojo

2926
02:03:23,469 --> 02:03:22,249
master yeah and and you're doing you

2927
02:03:24,520 --> 02:03:23,479
know I mentioned this maybe in the

2928
02:03:26,770 --> 02:03:24,530
pre-interview role

2929
02:03:29,049 --> 02:03:26,780
I'm a Richard doll remember it's like

2930
02:03:30,250 --> 02:03:29,059
one of the best values out there for

2931
02:03:32,529 --> 02:03:30,260
anyone who's interested in this stuff

2932
02:03:34,899 --> 02:03:32,539
because you produce so much great

2933
02:03:36,939 --> 02:03:34,909
content and so much but you give away

2934
02:03:39,330 --> 02:03:36,949
for free but there's also stuff that's

2935
02:03:41,969 --> 02:03:39,340
behind the wall as it should be

2936
02:03:45,759 --> 02:03:41,979
can you tell people a little bit about

2937
02:03:48,520 --> 02:03:45,769
what you do and respect and stuff that's

2938
02:03:50,799 --> 02:03:48,530
coming up for for you that maybe people

2939
02:03:52,629 --> 02:03:50,809
should haven't look out for that

2940
02:03:53,919 --> 02:03:52,639
absolutely thank you Alex and thank you

2941
02:03:56,560 --> 02:03:53,929
for saying what you did about my site

2942
02:03:59,560 --> 02:03:56,570
that Tracy and I run that and it's a lot

2943
02:04:02,169 --> 02:03:59,570
of work but I've decided look if I want

2944
02:04:03,700 --> 02:04:02,179
to devote my life to this type of thing

2945
02:04:06,189 --> 02:04:03,710
that I do like I have to figure out a

2946
02:04:08,620 --> 02:04:06,199
way to make it work so I can't trust

2947
02:04:10,029 --> 02:04:08,630
YouTube because that's the hammer is

2948
02:04:14,259 --> 02:04:10,039
definitely coming down on YouTube in

2949
02:04:16,029 --> 02:04:14,269
every way so what I've decided is I mean

2950
02:04:17,979 --> 02:04:16,039
I sell some books I write books and sell

2951
02:04:20,200 --> 02:04:17,989
those but I've created this website

2952
02:04:22,839 --> 02:04:20,210
Richard only members where it's true I

2953
02:04:24,640 --> 02:04:22,849
put I put a tremendous amount of content

2954
02:04:26,890 --> 02:04:24,650
out there for people who want to go to

2955
02:04:28,569 --> 02:04:26,900
the site and people can complain they're

2956
02:04:30,100 --> 02:04:28,579
like well you know you're trying to make

2957
02:04:31,839 --> 02:04:30,110
money and I'm like yes I am trying to

2958
02:04:34,180 --> 02:04:31,849
make money like we're not 12 years old

2959
02:04:35,319 --> 02:04:34,190
like the people who say oh my god so

2960
02:04:38,109 --> 02:04:35,329
once i was trying to make money out of

2961
02:04:41,879 --> 02:04:38,119
the out of this field like are you a

2962
02:04:45,250 --> 02:04:41,889
child like what do you think people do

2963
02:04:48,549 --> 02:04:45,260
to live like it just never ceases to

2964
02:04:50,020 --> 02:04:48,559
amaze me so I got it's also I like the

2965
02:04:51,719 --> 02:04:50,030
way people put it and it's really true

2966
02:04:54,020 --> 02:04:51,729
it's the value for value exchange

2967
02:04:55,969 --> 02:04:54,030
exactly

2968
02:04:58,729 --> 02:04:55,979
and what else are you spending your

2969
02:05:01,430 --> 02:04:58,739
money on and you know what ways we're

2970
02:05:02,870 --> 02:05:01,440
all becoming used to it more right so we

2971
02:05:04,339 --> 02:05:02,880
pay for Netflix and then we're gonna

2972
02:05:06,649 --> 02:05:04,349
like I already paid for Netflix do I

2973
02:05:08,509 --> 02:05:06,659
really have to pay for ESPN Plus well

2974
02:05:10,609 --> 02:05:08,519
yes you have to pay for you ESPN Plus

2975
02:05:12,979 --> 02:05:10,619
and that's just the way it is so I don't

2976
02:05:15,020 --> 02:05:12,989
have I agree I think it's it's a

2977
02:05:17,810 --> 02:05:15,030
childish complaint and when you look at

2978
02:05:20,509 --> 02:05:17,820
the numbers I mean getting getting rich

2979
02:05:22,669 --> 02:05:20,519
I mean you know now now trying to lay a

2980
02:05:24,500 --> 02:05:22,679
few deep eyes getting rich but Richard

2981
02:05:27,080 --> 02:05:24,510
Dolan's not making millions of dollars

2982
02:05:28,879 --> 02:05:27,090
for this he's just hopefully we're

2983
02:05:31,819 --> 02:05:28,889
supporting him to continue to do that

2984
02:05:34,459 --> 02:05:31,829
who else thank you

2985
02:05:38,390 --> 02:05:34,469
yeah it allows me to live in and I'm

2986
02:05:40,339 --> 02:05:38,400
happy and it works so this is a model in

2987
02:05:42,410 --> 02:05:40,349
a system that is working for me for now

2988
02:05:47,479 --> 02:05:42,420
but in terms of what I'm working working

2989
02:05:49,640 --> 02:05:47,489
on in addition to doing the content for

2990
02:05:55,790 --> 02:05:49,650
my site which I'm very committed to

2991
02:05:56,989 --> 02:05:55,800
doing I had a couple of I guess I went a

2992
02:05:58,700 --> 02:05:56,999
couple of different directions over the

2993
02:06:00,799 --> 02:05:58,710
last few years and I think I've sorted

2994
02:06:02,989 --> 02:06:00,809
out finally so I thought I was going to

2995
02:06:05,209 --> 02:06:02,999
do a whole false flag book that was my

2996
02:06:07,100 --> 02:06:05,219
big big thing for a while and that can

2997
02:06:09,020 --> 02:06:07,110
still happen frankly I have a tremendous

2998
02:06:12,469 --> 02:06:09,030
amount of research on history of false

2999
02:06:16,100 --> 02:06:12,479
flags that I can and probably will turn

3000
02:06:17,989 --> 02:06:16,110
into a book but I decided maybe a year

3001
02:06:23,450 --> 02:06:17,999
ago that I was going back full time into

3002
02:06:25,989 --> 02:06:23,460
UFOs and and that means the third volume

3003
02:06:30,109 --> 02:06:25,999
of UFOs in a national security state

3004
02:06:32,020 --> 02:06:30,119
which is a dreaded project that's been

3005
02:06:36,439 --> 02:06:32,030
hanging over my head for a while but I

3006
02:06:37,819 --> 02:06:36,449
feel like I can do it now and the only

3007
02:06:38,779 --> 02:06:37,829
other thing well pardon me the only

3008
02:06:43,189 --> 02:06:38,789
other thing that might get in the way of

3009
02:06:44,810 --> 02:06:43,199
it is if I do a quick little 150 page

3010
02:06:47,209 --> 02:06:44,820
book on the last two three years of

3011
02:06:50,600 --> 02:06:47,219
ufology ufology turn it upside down

3012
02:06:52,219 --> 02:06:50,610
which to me is a fascinating story but I

3013
02:06:54,229 --> 02:06:52,229
may incorporate that into volume three

3014
02:06:56,620 --> 02:06:54,239
of national security state but that

3015
02:06:59,450 --> 02:06:56,630
that's what I'm working on I have just

3016
02:07:01,640 --> 02:06:59,460
reorganized my main office which was in

3017
02:07:03,739 --> 02:07:01,650
absolute state of disaster for the last

3018
02:07:05,800 --> 02:07:03,749
year and a half and I can work there and

3019
02:07:08,770 --> 02:07:05,810
I can actually get some writing done

3020
02:07:10,210 --> 02:07:08,780
so that's my goal for 2020 is to focus

3021
02:07:13,660 --> 02:07:10,220
as much of my writing as I can

3022
02:07:16,840 --> 02:07:13,670
problem is frankly the problem and it's

3023
02:07:18,400 --> 02:07:16,850
not a problem like people invite me to

3024
02:07:21,520 --> 02:07:18,410
speak at various places and do various

3025
02:07:25,180 --> 02:07:21,530
things and I enjoy those but those take

3026
02:07:27,670 --> 02:07:25,190
time out of my work and it's hard I've

3027
02:07:29,680 --> 02:07:27,680
actually I've been turning a lot of

3028
02:07:31,180 --> 02:07:29,690
events down because I have to stay home

3029
02:07:33,970 --> 02:07:31,190
and I've got to be able to focus on my

3030
02:07:36,460 --> 02:07:33,980
writing my work so I'm doing some travel

3031
02:07:37,740 --> 02:07:36,470
but hopefully not not as much as I've

3032
02:07:40,660 --> 02:07:37,750
done in the past

3033
02:07:43,360 --> 02:07:40,670
well we're counting on you to get in

3034
02:07:45,880 --> 02:07:43,370
that office crank it out like some we

3035
02:07:48,580 --> 02:07:45,890
only you could Richard's been an

3036
02:07:49,990 --> 02:07:48,590
absolute delight pleasure so much thank

3037
02:07:53,110 --> 02:07:50,000
you so much for joining me in spending

3038
02:07:55,600 --> 02:07:53,120
so much time with us and we'll stay in

3039
02:07:57,370 --> 02:07:55,610
touch I would do this again just let you

3040
02:07:59,200 --> 02:07:57,380
know I've enjoyed this very much it's

3041
02:08:01,330 --> 02:07:59,210
great conversation so thank you for

3042
02:08:03,520 --> 02:08:01,340
having me on Alex thanks again to

3043
02:08:06,310 --> 02:08:03,530
Richard Dolman for joining me on skeptic

3044
02:08:08,890 --> 02:08:06,320
oh what a great guest an open and

3045
02:08:12,310 --> 02:08:08,900
welcoming guy for someone who has done

3046
02:08:15,160 --> 02:08:12,320
all he has done inside of this field

3047
02:08:16,720 --> 02:08:15,170
it's just amazing to talk to him so one

3048
02:08:20,470 --> 02:08:16,730
question I'd have the tea up from this

3049
02:08:23,440 --> 02:08:20,480
interview is toothpaste is toothpaste

3050
02:08:25,450 --> 02:08:23,450
good or is toothpaste that good if you

3051
02:08:27,660 --> 02:08:25,460
remember from this interview Richards

3052
02:08:31,660 --> 02:08:27,670
point I think if I got it right was

3053
02:08:35,260 --> 02:08:31,670
squeezing that UFO disclosure toothpaste

3054
02:08:37,750 --> 02:08:35,270
out of the tube is probably a good thing

3055
02:08:40,720 --> 02:08:37,760
and maybe we shouldn't come down so hard

3056
02:08:44,530 --> 02:08:40,730
on those who are trying to do it or

3057
02:08:46,840 --> 02:08:44,540
maybe we should consider all the aspects

3058
02:08:50,650 --> 02:08:46,850
of what they're doing before we

3059
02:08:52,060 --> 02:08:50,660
criticize them as I sometimes do so if

3060
02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:52,070
you'd like to tee up that question with

3061
02:08:56,350 --> 02:08:53,930
me and other folks who listen to this

3062
02:08:59,530 --> 02:08:56,360
show please join us over on The

3063
02:09:01,720 --> 02:08:59,540
Skeptical forum which you can find all

3064
02:09:04,000 --> 02:09:01,730
our shows there and you can talk to

3065
02:09:05,890 --> 02:09:04,010
everybody about them and you can also go

3066
02:09:08,560 --> 02:09:05,900
to The Skeptical website of course and

3067
02:09:10,570 --> 02:09:08,570
download any of these shows for free no

3068
02:09:12,940 --> 02:09:10,580
ads or firewalls and you're free to

3069
02:09:15,070 --> 02:09:12,950
share them around and redistribute them

3070
02:09:17,610 --> 02:09:15,080
the idea is really just to get this

3071
02:09:20,100 --> 02:09:17,620
information out to people

3072
02:09:22,770 --> 02:09:20,110
who need it so if you know someone who

3073
02:09:27,630 --> 02:09:22,780
needs to hear this information please

3074
02:09:30,030 --> 02:09:27,640
share the show with them I have some

3075
02:09:32,130 --> 02:09:30,040
great episodes of skeptical coming up I

3076
02:09:34,710 --> 02:09:32,140
think this one was terrific again it's

3077
02:09:37,530 --> 02:09:34,720
so cruel to talk to a guy like Richard

3078
02:09:39,540 --> 02:09:37,540
Dolan who can kind of go up to the big

3079
02:09:41,610 --> 02:09:39,550
picture but can also dive into the

3080
02:09:43,440 --> 02:09:41,620
details great stuff and I have some

3081
02:09:46,920 --> 02:09:43,450
really terrific ones coming up too I

3082
02:09:50,520 --> 02:09:46,930
think so please do stay with me for all

3083
02:09:53,070 --> 02:09:50,530
of that until next time take care and